Do ANY of u agree with Allsopp here??? I don`t!!!

I agreed with it to an extent. The reason I posted this is because my question where Allsopp put this answer forward was initially relating to MTT. I can agree to an extent that in cash games this could be an additional weapon in the armoury!!!

Thanks alot for the support guys. A common trait of poker players is stubborness I suppose its true in many forms of gambling. Although I dont consider poker gambling. A person that plays poker is normally drawn to it initially by their gambling nature.

I'll try and explain the points that keep causing some of you problems so that you can understand nothing is ridiculous about this style of play.

Folding "Premium Hands" to a raise.

In cash games I always like to ensure I have the tools nescessary to ensure I can win a pot. As a result it is important my cards are live. Players generally raise with hands like AK, KK, AA - the amounts always vary but you can be sure 75% of the time people raise with these hands. Furthermore, people nearly always raise with other premium hands like AQ, AJ, KQ, JJ, KJ, A 10, QJ etc etc etc. Therefore if I am holding one of the latter hands I will fold to almost any raise. Why? Simply because my hand could be dead or the chance of winning with it significantly reduced. I also never really know where I am in a hand if I hit top pair or even second pair. I'd much rather fold when it costs me nothing and pick a better time to play and win. Like when I can hit and be almost sure I have the best of it. I dont think any part of that sounds ridiculous. Remember, cash games aren't a race - you just have to make a profit.

Number Psychology

People are naturally tight when it comes to even numbers and loose when it comes to odd numbers. Therefore if I want someone to call a bet I will bet a number like 350. If I want a player to fold I will be a number like 420. In cash games, decimals are also psychologically stronger. Therefore I would always bet an amount like $6.20 if I wanted them to fold and $6 if I wanted them to call. Try it, it works.

And to quote Dorkus:

"His little summary thing is so ridiculous it was impossible ("You can never win as much with a big hand as you can lose"? lol) for me not to comment on it."

If you cant understand this concept then you should probably give up poker. I'd say that you are either a losing poker player or dont make very much from it with an attitude like this.

See the concept is simple. Suppose you get dealt pocket A's, the strongest starting hand in poker! But you dont improve your hand [which if you want to play by the odds, is a big favourite to happen] - then quite simply. All you have at the end of the hand is a pair of aces. Pretty weak, but yet people love to push everything in with them. I see people go broke so often with just a pair of aces, its ridiculous. If your an exception to this then please dont criticise me for stating the fact that most people will go broke with pocket aces. Now if you raise with them, people generally call raises with a premium ace hand. Since your holding 2 of them - the chances of somebody else having any is significantly reduced, so its less likely you'll have anyone dominated.

Other hands that might call you? Well, middle pocket pairs are a big one. People find them easy to lay down and again if they hit a set - aces go broke again...

Then we have almost every other hand possible in poker - if it hits two pair or any other hand in the poker table apart from "one pair" or "high card" then again your aces are bust.

Same goes for pocket Kings and Queens.

So really its quite simple, your very unlikely to win as much with big pocket pairs as you are with say for example 78 suited. Simply because, if the majority of players dont hit with them they can easily fold. Whereas if they do hit with them, they can bust the chump with aces, kings or queens on a 10 high board when they turn a straight!

I dont think any concept there is that ridiculous! Like I say, I hope you guys dont take my advice. The less players that play like this online the better. It'd make my life a hell of alot harder at the tables!

Remember guys, you dont have to win all the chips at the table. You just have to make a profit. So no matter how good that hand looks, always ask yourself if its really worth it and be prepared to let it go. Even when your Ebay Ebook tells you not too!

Good luck guys! Espiecially snake and zinzan! Although judging by their responses I doubt they need it!

Still interested in how much you make using this strategy, I didn't see an answer (I apologize if you answered, but I didn't find it)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allsopp And to quote Dorkus:

Strangely AA is showing a profit for me on PT, so I am, bizarrely enough winning more than I am losing with the biggest of big hands, contrary to your statement. I'm showing a profit with KK, QQ, and AK too.

Even if you're talking about a single hand in a vacuum, the most you can lose or win in a (HU) hand is your stack, assuming your opponent has you outchipped, so you're still wrong.

You concentrate so much on certain specific scenarios, and ignore so many others that your logic is completely flawed. What about the times when villain will hit TP and go busto to my overpair? What about times when rags will flop and villain will go busto on overpair vs higher overpair?
What about the times when complete donks will go busto chasing gutshots against me? There is a time and a place for playing implied odds, and it's generally when you can get cheaply into a multi-way pot, or when you are very deepstacked and can put villain almost exclusively on one or two specific hands preflop, not when you're confronted with a sole raise and folds.

Anyway, am I winning more than I am losing with big hands because online poker is rigged and I am one of the chosen ones or something? Please revert.

dont have time to read this whole thread now but got up to this and betting $6.20 isnt psychologically higher then $5.30 its just higher maybe u mean people may see better $4.80 as higher then $5.30 if there thinking about it quick idk

Dorkus you will win cash with premium hands like AA, KK and AK. But you'll also go bust with them more and you also wont win as much as with for example suited connectors because people are less likely to successfully contest a pair. Surely you can understand that?

Tight aggressive poker of course works but only when its played right at the correct levels. It very rarely is, purely because many players dont pay attention to situations and think that its impossible for the odds to defy themself.

As for how much you make. How can anyone give a figure in poker? I might win nothing this month and takedown a huge tournament for $250000 next month!

All I'll say is, I earn a living from the game playing 2/4 No Limit and 10/20 Limit.

However the majority of my earnings come from regularly cashing in good value MTT's with high buy in's as this usually equates to a small field!

Good luck!

Just for clarity, it should be noted that 350 and 420 are both even numbers.

Shame on you JD, you are just touting for another response.

I get the feeling everyone is talking about different things. And like most things in life, its all about opinions? If it works for you why fix it?

I could not play the way Allsopp does as I do not play cash games and I like to play a tight game, although I can change gears when I feel the time is right.

I play mainly S&G`s and MTT. I don`t like turbo`s, prefer S&G`s with 10 players and have just increased my buyins to about $30 - $50 S&G and $20 - $60 MTT (I would count a $20 rebuy as $60) I also have tried to get into the bigger buy in tournys via satt`s.

I struggle to understand, Allsopp, how you can say "As for how much you make. How can anyone give a figure in poker? I might win nothing this month and takedown a huge tournament for $250000 next month!"

To keep track of how much I win or lose I have a spreadsheet on my PC with 4 sheets open. One monitors my MTT, one Cash, one S&G`s - the last totals them all up. This is how the totals page looks so far...

................................August............September.............October.............November
OverallStakes .........$2,145.00...........$1,161.10 .............$1,616.40 ...........$595.00
Winnings ................$2,312.27...........$1,753.35.............. $1,194.91 ...........$600.00
Profit/ loss ..................$60.17 .............$637.69 ...............($421.49) ..............$5.00

I only started this in August. Behind this I know what effects my profit/ Loss.
So in August I went mad towards the end of the month when I was $998 in profit - I tried to push too high in stakes (Out of my depth in £100 MTT - that was before I read the Sklansky books!!!)
September - I started up a new business but won a $10 MTT $535.
October - Stakes too high again in MTT
So far, November Lost $210 on MTT won $215 on S&G !!!

I know there are other trackers out there but this is how I keep track.

It might just be my background in business that makes me monitor profit and loss - I`ll be setting myself targets soon!!! )
Again, check out www.eureca.uk.com )

I know not, what you mean.

I have similar spreadsheets for tracking all of my results. Yep, multiple pages and various purposes, but every penny is there and accountable and when. Records keeping is a must if you're going to be honest with yourself about how you're really doing.

I helped a buddy out with this, to prove my point to him. He didn't believe it really mattered as he said he was a winning player overall. Well I got him to agree to an experiment with me. He would play like normal and not track anything. However, after he played a SNG (which is all he played), he would send me an e-mail with the buy-in, entrants, final placing, cashout, etc. I dropped it all into a simple spreadsheet with some basic calculations. At the end of the month, he thought he did pretty good and was up maybe like $100-$125 or so he thought. I showed him the spreadsheet which showed him as just barely positive (something like + $5-10). But a far cry from where he thought he was. He did say he took more notice of the number of tournies he played since he had to honestly e-mail me each time he played. Now he swears by keeping records.

Knowing where you are in poker is real important. I dont keep records on actual sessions profit/loss [only records I keep are player notes] but I do monitor my money closely.

My system is, everytime I go $400 above my bankroll in a site [1 maximum buyin at my preferred level] I withdraw it to Neteller. Then I let it accumalate in neteller until it reaches $4000, then I deposit it into a site where I dont have a bankroll. However along the way when I need cash I will withdraw from Neteller using my Neteller card.

Its not as detailed as keeping actual records on sessions, but I generally know where I am. If I dont make as much as I think I do in a month I soon find out because bills dont get paid and I go hungry.

I used to use Poker Office which automatically records data and displays them in tabular form like you guys have. Only problem is, its a big leech on RAM and meant my poker client would occasionally crash so it had to go!

If you're doing it professionaly it would be a good idea to invest in some decent hardware! Maybe a rig with 5 flat screens wrapping round your desk. It'd probably pay for itself. Certainly Poker Tracker is one of those products that will pay for itself.

Hey Bombjack.

My computer is pretty good but for some reason I get system lag when using Poker Office on Pacific Poker and that sometimes leads the client to crash. Its no big problem as I dont play there that often - I only go there every now and again because its very easy to cash in their high stakes SnG's but for that reason I dont use Poker Office at all.

I only play on one table at anyone time though so no more than one monitor is needed

I think if somebody is raising the bb 6 times you only can call if you have a good position. (AA, AK, KQ, etc). But what allsopp is saying about the odds is true.

I agree that poker is more about people and the way they act. During a game you can see how play the game. Most players on the internet don't know nothing about odds!!

Careful Dooky, the play it by the book brigade will be baying for your blood soon.
All you have to do is comment that e-book poker has its flaws and they are on top of you.

They might call you a ranter, liar, ridiculous, and even a hijacker, so be careful.

What? Come on...we make one human sacrifice and now we're baying for blood? I'd say chanting for blood is reasonable, but not baying for it.

Id say baying is playing it down.

Is it too much to ask for people to stick vaguely to the actual topic at hand rather than start pointless whining with no relevant content?

This is true, and is precisely the reason that playing the odds is profitable given good game selection.

One of the main flaws in Allsopp's 'plan' is that he is actively seeking TAG players. Now, I am generalising a little, but TAGs tend to be better poker players as a whole than any other group (you don't, for example, see TAGs regularly calling down with King high). Why would you want to play against better players? They are less likely to commit themselves with something like TP decent kicker, and yet Allsopp is claiming that "most of the time when you hit you will win a huge pot". This is simply not true, there will be times that TAGs ranges miss flops and they check-fold, there will be times when they hit a reasonable hand but givie it up in the face of big action and these occurences will hugely outnumber the times when you hit a huge hand and they hit a hand they are willing to go all the way with.

I guess I'm taking such exception to this because to someone not well versed enough to separate the important strategic concepts in your posts from the drivel (there are copious quantities of both), reading your posts could be very dangerous. Yep, sure, there's a time for playing low suited connectors, in MP/LP at a very weak-tight table, in the blinds against a habitual stealer, when a pot is limped 4-ways in front of you etc etc, but to suggest that you can profit so incredibly easily from utilising a much more carefree approach to such hands is wrong.

If there were no bad players in poker, your ideas would have much more merit. But as the situation stands there are plenty of terrible players out there and you appear to be suggesting that we avoid them and play better players (...or to quote you 'tight agressive ebook players'). Why? Our profit in poker in the long run equates to the sum of our mistakes less the sum of our opponents mistakes - why would we want to play people who know what they're doing?

I think you may also be suffering from somewhat selective memory, given that you don't use PT or equivalent. Many people complain about bad beats constantly occuring to them, when in fact it's just their memory 'forgetting' their wins and 'remembering' the big losses. I believe the reverse applies here, and you're conveniently 'forgetting' the hands where you hit nothing and check-fold, or the hands where you hit something but end up having to throw your hand away in the face of action and 'remembering' all your big wins when you flopped a flush against AA and so on. Hence your incorrect assertion that "most of the time" when you hit a huge hand you will get greatly paid off.

Invest in Pokertracker. If your comp specs are too low to run it effectively, invest in more RAM or whatever you need - you're talking about making lots of money and in another thread you seem to be scoffing at low limit players so why aren't you willing to pay for an upgrade and a utility which will help your online game no end? Anyway, get PT, play lots of hands, and post your stats for 87s etc. The results will probably surprise you.

Is it possible to allow a user of this forum the right to voice their opinion, theory, thought process, and strategy ( Allsopp ) without being insulted and accused?
Break open his comments by all means, but lay off the stuff about hijacking, ranting, being ridiculous etc etc.
Afford this user their place in this community without the added BS, is it possible?

I have a question for you, Allsopp:

How does your style change with limit poker where implied odds (whether you ignore them or not) play a much smaller part? Do you still call raises with 67s?

He most likely doesn't play limit poker Chucks, but at least you didn't hound him in any way.

Actually yes, it is very much possible. We see it all the time on the forum.

I rest my case.

and no, I didn't hound him that time....I got that done earlier.

Just to be clear on my previous post...What I was saying is that it is possible to post, etc without being insulted and accused of anything.

Clear the first time.

Yeah sorry for the holdup, I was playing in an event that didn't allow Americans.
Not my fault for sure, but very enjoyable.
Its ok JD, 99% of what goes on around here is top notch, its the witch hunt 1% that troubles me.
Saying that, as I am not among those who wish to walk that path I am happy in my play where and when I like bubble.
Not my fault, I am only human after all.

Padlock alert.

Now you're just spamming your post count. Flame, attack, abuse...something something. Ha.

Back on topic, please.

To quote a PM I sent someone a few days ago...

Ok, seeing as someone doesn't seem to get it, I'm going to play a fun game called 'delete all off-topic posts after this'.

I agree with most things Allsopp says in there rightful place, because I can .