Discipline

Over the many years of poker the hardest skill and most important skill in poker is discipline. I find it very hard to not play marginal hands especially when you have not been getting hands. I have had lots of trouble not playing those tempting K 10 unsuited or J 10 unsuited. I think that those are some of the hands that kill you in the long run. For example, say you have J 10 and the flop comes up 10 4 6. You know you have top pair so it is very tough to fold. So you will probably call a couple bets and lose to a higher kicker. Those hands hurt you in the end even if you do not lose that much in that single hand. Does andy other people have success playing those kinds of hands?

I see your point orangeliger, but I disagree slightly. Playing marginal hands like K10os and the like are Ok at times. The trick is not over playing them, especially if you only hit top pair. For the most part, I totally avoid these hands like they're herpes, but sometimes, against the right players, a K10 can be devestating. Of course it's never a good habit to play these hands frequently, but sometimes they can pay off large. Just don't let the top pair get to your head and make dumb calls. And it's always better to bet than to call.

discipline is good to have in poker... especially with starting hand chart.. i cant tell you how many times i just have a feeling and i call with like ace seven suited and i hit a ace and i call all the way down and im out kicked..

Fortunately for me, throwing away junk is something I have a handle on. Doesn't matter how many times i get sucked out, doesn't matte how many hands I have to throw away. Junk is junk....pass.

It's a hard habit to break. But if you do, that's major progress. good luck on it.

I think you have to know how your running hot or cold. Sometime your hitting everything and others nothing.

I agree with the others above. Just dont become married to it. The larger connectors can be huge money makers but be willing to part ways on a weak flop even if that means throwing away top pair

Definately agree with OP, AJ is my bane of poker life. I hate it, it hates me.

after i have dominated some SnG's or have done good in some MTT's, i get too cocky and discipline slips further and further away, even though that is how i did so good. i feel like i can win with anycards and if not bluff with them, this leads to a massive spiral downwards where i am asking myself, "do i even stand a chance?" when i enter tourney. not good, have to learn to stay steady and constant and not get used to one gear or certain way of playing because everyhand preposes different correct/better plays (not one that worked before/last night). def need to have discipline.

You are 100% corect. I am a tight player and do not get tempted by the marginal hands unless I amtrying to steal the blinds from late position. However you need to compensate and play aggresively when you do get the biggies like AKs, QQ, or better.

I play those hands, but I'm still discipined.

Discipline is not what you play.
It's how you play it.

I will play J 10 offsuit, K 10 offsuit. Sure, no problem.

Like many would say "I've played AA all in and lost."

Shoulda had discipline right ?

Yaaaaaaa right.

Bad luck shouldn't be confused with discipline.

playing solid cards is a good thing , but you also need luck. I also think that your should be aware of the way your opponnets are playing. gut instinct helps too... good luck at the tables....Tina

I like how you phrase this and tend to agree. For me at least, how I play my hands can be determined by how others at my table are playing and how I have been playing recently (am I on tilt, am I reading others well, etc). I guess in some ways I think of discipline more in terms of making the correct decision - that is, am I disciplined enough to make certain types of plays (I use the term "play" here very loosely, I would consider folding to be a play as well)?

poker is really a comlex a game and if you don't take it seriously like you would do your job, get ready to lose. Having many gears and applying them in right timing is crucial.

I also tend to play more ABC poker when I'm not feeling like I'm in the zone. That saves a bit of money as well.

i dont think that.marginal hands playing must related to position,blinds,stack size,opponents,and so on.it is based on situation.if you want to be a pro.you must learned how to play marginal hands.

I also have the same problem at times, i find it that the trick is to play those hands early when the blinds are low and play them hard. try to only get say one caller when the blinds go up

You should not play those hands many times. But in the right spot you should raise them and play them like a big hand. Then those hands can make you some money or chips!
Do not limp those hand all the time. Or your chipstack will fall down...

Poker is a game of patience and the hands you described are killers. A lot of the sites are now into turbos, for obvious reasons, and these games almost force you to play marginals. I think because of this players get used to it and forget to back off in a normal game. I prefer tourneys with longer blinds so that you can play according to the book i.e. around 12% of your hands or less.

I like to play marginal hands when the villains stack warrants a call. I need to know i can win big if i hit a hidden monster and they get a piece of the board.

Thanx for this thread. Sometimes we tend to forget the basics and stumbling on a post like this is what we need to kick start the poker brain again.

I almost always wanna see the flop. I think it adds alot to a persons image when he turns over 2-3suited and flopped a fullhouse. The wider the range of hands your opponent has to put you on the harder it is for him to play against you. My advice: do what is comfortable for you. Im kinda loose, so I tend to see alot of flops, but I can definately get away from a gutshot straight draw when the board is showing a flush

I know what you are sayin with the higher kicker thing.Happens to me too.J10 will loose me small amounts of chip but it has won many big pots for me.It depends on if im in a touney or cash table.If im early on in a touney i will stay away from it,but once things settle down later on i will open my play up and use 10j suited sometimes.Like i said it has won me some major pots by hitting somthin on the flop.Where the hand realy gets you into trouble is when you hit a draw,either flush or straigt and start chasing things.Next thing you ve commited atleast a quarter of your chips.I would rather play or see someone play j10 suited than A rag even if its suited.

Logout. I had several great nights in a row. Thank you weekend! I started playing tonight and was card dead. Instead of wiping out your previous wins logout with a small loss of several blinds before doing any damage to your bankroll if you feel that you are getting bored. I simply declare "last round" and finish out the round until the BB hits me on all of them.

-Raymond

I've been realizing some important things about my game that I need to work on badly. The main thing is my patience. I'm not a high roller, not a bad player but just not rich so I put in 150 to get me 15 buy-ins at .05/.10 nl holdem. I played for an hour last night on two tables, up $20. Not bad. Then like an idiot I go up to .10/.25 NL, two-tabling with heads-up sng. Wound up giving my $20 back, plus $50 more! What am I doing? I get in positions where I feel like I need to double up right away, go all-in with 77 and AKJ flop, and go broke (knowing I'm beat!) Today at lunch, two-tabled .05/.10 again, up $15. I guess my question is a mental one, how do I convince myself to be patient and wait until I know I'm ready to move up? I know my skill level, and I'm confident when I'm not playing scared and I do okay, then I get greedy and go broke! I don't even know if there's an answer and sorry about the long post but I'm just frustrated at my utter lack of discipline.

Hello,

It's easy. Don't risk too much of your bankroll on any one session.

There is a 5% rule you can try to stick with.

Don't buy into a tournament that is more than 5% of your bankroll.

I'll allow more for cash games if the money is spread across multiple tables.

-Raymond

discipline is def. important in poker, i'm still trying to break this bad, all or nothing habit, i'm definently improving..

Hi.

Great subject.
I try to be a discipline player and always try to play top 80% hands, but once in a while I play that kind of hands that make you loose in the long range.
In some online tournaments I've even waiting almost 10 or 15 hands to play with top 80% cards, but sometimes I don't have that kind of patience.

Bye.
manalva

It's important to remember any two cards can win a pot. It isn't specific hands that hurt you but how you play it. A good poker player will read the situation well and win the pot.

I don't think that J10, K10, etc hurt you in any specific way. The only time they hurt you is if you are unwilling to lay down your J10 on a 10 6 4 flop. Then your problem is being able to lay down hands, not hand selection.

Lastly, we all know that poker pros tend to favor hands like 65s and baby suited connectors in general at times. There's a reason they do this and it's not because they think their opponent is bluffing. They can hit the flop hard and if they miss they can outplay their opponent.

Speaking of discipline this afternoon was one of my loosest sessions in a long time.

I walked into a royal flush of all things but still manged not to lose too much.

Hopefully tomorrow will be a new and profitable day.

-Raymond

i think the whole problem begins with playing these hands preflop unless you're the BB.....don't play hands where u think u can get in trouble and u wont cry..

I completely agree with you... and no I do not have success in the long run with those kind of hands. I just came back from a poker game and i lost the hand since i was playing a marginal hand to someone with a higher kicker! the flop was 889 and i have a 9T offsuite... only 3 of us so i think my odds are good... the pot was more than half my stack, i go allin, the guy calls with 9J, and the next 2 cards are 2 and 4... come on you know. So I completely agree with you, and discipline is the key to this game.

Ask Gus Hansen about starting hands :P I think here is the answer :
You should just know when to give up and fold your hand.