did i lose the minimum this hand?

hey yall. just wanted to post a hand and i wasn't sure if i lost the minimum here.

Full Tilt Poker Game #19046363736: Table Twining - $0.02/$0.05 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:56:05 ET - 2010/03/07
Seat 1: wyf2010 ($1.90)
Seat 2: PythonWannabe ($3.97)
Seat 3: cmon fisheeeee ($7.48)
Seat 4: mklome ($4.69)
Seat 5: Alma Seifert ($5.31)
Seat 6: roadwaffle ($2.36)
Seat 7: ReverendBattle ($2.88)
Seat 8: Krecul ($7.17)
Seat 9: papasragu ($3.43)
Krecul posts the small blind of $0.02
papasragu posts the big blind of $0.05
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cmon fisheeeee [9s 9h]
wyf2010 calls $0.05
PythonWannabe folds
cmon fisheeeee calls $0.05
mklome folds
Alma Seifert folds
roadwaffle calls $0.05
ReverendBattle folds
Krecul calls $0.03
papasragu checks
*** FLOP *** [3c 9d 7d]
Krecul checks
papasragu checks
wyf2010 checks
cmon fisheeeee bets $0.20
roadwaffle has 15 seconds left to act
roadwaffle folds
Krecul folds
papasragu folds
wyf2010 calls $0.20
*** TURN *** [3c 9d 7d] 6♦
wyf2010 checks
cmon fisheeeee checks
*** RIVER *** [3c 9d 7d 6d] [Tc]
wyf2010 bets $0.30
cmon fisheeeee calls $0.30
*** SHOW DOWN ***
wyf2010 shows [Ad Qd] a flush, Ace high
cmon fisheeeee mucks
wyf2010 wins the pot ($1.17) with a flush, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.25 |
Board: [3c 9d 7d 6d Tc]

i think you did. technically he wasn't getting good odds to call so your raise on the flop was fine. you can't help that he made the flush. a lot of players probably would have lost more.

Yes, you lost the minimum.

You played it badly, imo.

Raise pre-flop, and as played the turn is an easy bet.

yea that kinda just one of those situations. I think you played it ok, I mean raising pre with 99 isn't really a must here. I would have bet a lot more than .20 though, at the lower limits its really hard to get people off a draw which can be a good thing.

I disagree. I think raising pre with 99 IS a must. If you're going to play a hand you should never let the blinds see cards for free...

Technically, no you didn't lose the minimum, you could have gotten away from the hand for nothing had you folded preflop, but who would really do that here. Realistically, you played the hand about as well as you could at these levels. Let's start with your raise preflop, whether your raise was .10, .20, .45 your opponent was more than likely going to call with his AQs. Let's move on to the flop... same thing. You will almost certainly not push someone at 5NL off nut flush draw on the flop, not to mention with 2 overcards to the board. After his call on the flop, just checking it down is what you had to do. I don't like the call on the river just because so many hands have you beat now, but you were getting about 3:1 on your money, so that could be justified.

I agree, I would have raised pre. Now I'm not saying you played it wrong, you played it your way, the way you're used to. Now I think I would have bet a little more on the flop (not to mention that the pot size would have been bigger with your initial preflop raise).

Saying this outloud to be 100% sure I comprehend.... If getting 3:1 on your money, you need to win over 25% of time for the play to be profitable.

.... and???

Also, do you think raising it up in MP1 is going to actually isolate an EP limper? What's your plan for when you get re-raised preflop and aren't closing out the action?
So you've raised pre (and 'bloated' up the pot)... how are you planning on playing it now in say a 3-way w overs on the board? (ez to suggest raise when we've seen that we hit our 1 in 8 chance of flopping a set).

I think the hand was played ok.

I think this was played fine. Since you didn't raise pre, the pot wasn't too big, so it was fine to not make a huge move to take the pot down.

i don't think pocket 9s can beat much of an utg limp with a short stack. He had been playing fairly tight and i wanted to keep the pot small pre-flop. i maybe should have bet the turn? i don't think it was a bad play to check the turn and maybe let him bluff the river or maybe catch up if he had 2 overs.

i think it's easy saying bet bigger on the flop because this one time my opponent had a draw. The flop was hard for my opponents to hit because it was unlikely they have a 9 and if they hit a weak pair then it is a weak hand.

I understand your point of raising it pre-flop but i wanted to see 4 way action and to hit big and try to win a large pot. It was an utg limp so it normally means strength playing from utg plus if i raised and it came a bad flop (A K 10) then it would be differcult to play.

I was close to folding on the river but i thought that my opponent could be bluffing because i checked the turn which showed weakness and i was getting half decent pot odds.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'm answering it anyway.

Bet/fold pre-flop unless there's some crazy action that let's us set mine (i.e 3bet and multiple calls). Chances of a 3bet here are about 25% on a random 5nl table (rough estimate based on most players only 3betting for value), so if we plan to bet/fold to 4bb we need to make an extra 1.33bb per hand that we do get post-flop.
Limp-calling isn't much different to bet-calling, other than the SPR being higher when you limp-call which makes it possible (as opposed to horrible for bet-calling) but it's still set mining OOP and slightly +EV at best.

As for post-flop, I much rather have the pot built a little with 99 here, simply because if the flop is all lower cards I can get a lot of chips in very quickly. 99 on say a 258 flop has much, much better equity then than on the turn or river. A big pot is good. What about flops with overs? It's opponent dependent, but usually I'm cbetting the usual amount of flops and winning a lot of the time, provided we're short handed on the flop. If it's very multiway then I check-fold. Now what about when we hit our set, we have a raised (and wonderfully bloated) pot that's big enough to get stacks in with.

An UTG limping range is really weak without a lot of history against villain. UTG limp means he's a fish, unless you have enough history with him to have a really good reason to believe otherwise. 99 is ahead.

The reason that I don't like checking the turn is because we're still playing to get stacks in, or should be. We're now beaten by T8 and flushes, there's no question we should still be betting hard and hoping our opponent has picked up a pair and a draw, or overcards with a FD or SD or two pair or whatever he can convince himself to call with. Set=get those stacks in unless the board is really dangerous and we have reason to believe that it's either killed our action against weaker hands or that it hit villain's range hard enough that we're probably beat. This isn't one of those situations, yes there's 3 to a flush and 3 to a straight but he almost never has the straight (he only has it if he limps T8 UTG, and even then it's a tiny part of any range).

I think you lost the minimum, I think I would of bet the turn like an idiot. I would of probably of lost an extra $2 minimum, great job I think you played the hand well. Best of luck

If you look at this one hand, Then yes you lost the minimum.

If you look at this hand against all possible hands that villain can have in this spot. Then you are losing value by not playing your hand aggressive enough.

I think you can safely fold, you're not getting raised by J10 suited, are you? As for isolating, it usually works, if you put in enough; maybe getting one caller more it is 02/05, after all.
It's not common to get 3 overs with 9's, even if there are 2, you can rep a strong hand with your raise. I'm not suggesting a raise because i saw this particular board. What if there are 3 unders, or you flop a set? The pot is 'bloated' and bound to get bigger if some1 puts you on AK or similar. This is the way I play, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that earlier.
I think it was played alright though, lost very little (played that way)

Not always lol. 2 and 5 cent tables aren't particularly high class, I understand you should respect an early raise though.

i dont mind your play here...one might say you should have bet the flop stronger flopping a set with two diamonds on the board...but villian only had 1.90 at the table and probably would have chased no matter your bet...one might also say your "sneak a peak" call wasted a bit...but there is a chance villian is holding the case 9 with the ace of diamond as a kicker, though his action on the turn was a good tell that he had made his flush and was hoping you would play at him...30 cents for the info was probably worth your call

cheers and gl
wooter

You are getting this out of a poker book or someone talking about playing something at least 25NL and up, probably more like 50NL and up though. At 2NL/5NL/10NL you will get people limping with very wide ranges from all positions, because a lot of the people don't understand position and the power it holds. They only notice that they have a painted card in their hand...

Bet preflop, do not limp.

Bet bigger on the flop because the flop is 3c 9d 7d - that puts a FD out there plus straight draws (56 68s T8?) TT,JJ 88 and 66 probably all call a bigger bet. Plus Ax where the Ace is the diamond will probably draw to both an ace and a diamond BD flush.

The reason your opponent has a draw is this is a somewhat drawy board. If you add up the combos of made hands vs the combos of draws, your opponent is always more likely to have a draw.

The reason this is played badly is that you are trying to slowplay your big hands. This allows you to

1) get out drawn
2) lose value against made hands (because you limit the pot size)
3) not charge draws.

As many of the hands that continue are draws and because you have a made hand, bet!

Also I would bet the turn, that way you charge Ad to draw to his BD FD.

Stop playing fit or fold!

Limps rarely mean strength and when they do micro players tend to reraise.

As he limped AQs he would have called rather than reraise

Why? he showed weakness preflop, which means he probably is a weak player, if he leads the flop small raise him back if he leads big fold. If he checks the flop, bet. He will let you know pretty quickly if he has a hand or not.


Remember the last hand you posted with 99 and I didnt like the idea of betting out etc? that was because you would be OOP, well by raising preflop you gain position and you can make weak player lives hell when you are in position, because they cant continue without a decent hand (they are weak so do start trying to second guess situations where they play different to their normal style). Because you are in position you get to see what they do before they see what you do, this gives you an information advantage.

Nicely said. Even Doyle tells us this advice, he rarely slowplays sets, opting to bet out. Especially is a drawy board

I like this advice as well. I would nearly always start out raising with my 9's, unless i'm mixing it up, which is rare unto itself