Dealing with donk betters

Hello people,

I would like to put together a strategy for dealing with donk betters after the flop. I have no standard line of play in these spots and seem to just play them pretty much on "feel" and depending on "my mood". This might be fine if my post-flop play was generally strong but seeing as its probably my weakest area its definately going to be -EV in many situations!

I like to have default lines of play for the average guy at my stake and then to make adjustments taking HUD stats (sample size permitting) and other reads in to account.

So... Mr Joe Average passive losing player at 5NL 6max has:
VPIP/PFR 26/13
Steal 22%
Check/raise flop 5.8%
Cbet flop 65%
Fold to Cbet 53%
Donk bet flop 20%

I guess we could find ourselves in the following situations as the pre-flop raiser after the flop:

Heads up IP with no pair or 8-9 outer
Three way IP with no pair or 8-9 outer
Three way OOP to one player with no pair or 8-9 outer

Heads up IP with overpair, TPGK, TPWK, SPGK, SPWK
Three way IP with TPGK, TPWK, SPGK, SPWK
Three way OOP with TPGK, TPWK, SPGK, SPWK

All of these combinations could come with dry, medium or wet boards plus many many other things to think about!

I feel that having no standard line for differet situations is a massive leak.

Thoughts, ideas or suggestions?

Frank.

If Mr J Average is passive then he wont be donking with air.

If Mr J Average is donking 20% its with made hands and AK/AQ and he wont fold either.

Dont label a player as passive and then start putting air in his range when he leads, because thats not passive is it?

So given he is passive (your label) and he leads and you dont have a hand.. what should you do?

I see what you are saying. When I say passive I am talking about pre-flop. I guess that if he hits a third of the time he is probably donking with a made hand (that isnt bottom pair or MPSK), a draw or with good overcards if the flop is low, raggedy and he thinks I have not hit.

I guess I should often give him credit for atleast something but when they bet like 15-20c in to 45c I am stuck for what to do. If the board is wet then I guess its raise or fold as he could be firing a tester bet with a mid pair or top pair shitty kicker.

Perhaps if the board is dry then pealing if I have showdown value or a few outs could be best?

Yeah give him credit.

Basically we view players in terms of loose vs tight or agro vs passive (bets a lot, bets a reasonable amout or dosent bet much).

Which is very 2D. You can add a 3rd axis in which is sometimes called stubbornness (refusal to fold) 5NL and much higher are stubborn, they dont like to fold. SO if he is donking and he isnt overly aggressive then he is leading because he likes his hand (PP on a non A/K board) .. he limp called preflop with 55.

He donks because he thinks his hand is OK.. you know he has a small PP but raising wont generate any FE because he thinks you have AK and so long as there isnt an ace or king he thinks you are bluffing so he will call.

This dosent change on the turn either, he checks, you try and stab again and so long as there is no ace he calls.

Now lets say there is an ace, you now have the best hand but now he folds so you arent ever getting value, you are the one putting money in when you are behind.

You cant really do much against a passive player who shows interest in a pot when you dont have anyything because they dont fold as much as aggressive players to further action. A lot of the reason aggro players will fold to further action and be less stubbon is they often have nothing, they cant call.

Thanks for the responce. I was confused when you said how the passive guy leads with a hand as I was under the impression that most that limp-call pre-flop at my level general politely check to us so we can make our Cbet, but if he already has his hand and his made pair doesnt need the board then it makes sence for him to bet it.

Its so difficult to put these guys on a hand because they play a game so completely different to mine. I am runnning like 18/17, never open-limp and rarely call pre-flop or complete the SB. I have to say that I have next to no clue what these guys limp-call with pre-flop, though I do ok.

I havent yet quite managed to fully digest your post but I can see I need to start giving these guys more credit.