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: Decision?
Call 4 30.77%
Fold 9 69.23%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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  Poker - Coin flip situation early in a tournament
 
  #1  
03-07-2007, 9:48 PM
nathanthomp
Junior Member
 
Plays at: Full Tilt
Likes: Holdem
Posts: 16
Coin flip situation early in a tournament

Imagine you bought in a tournament for $100. The starting stack is 5000 and the blinds start at 25/50. The first hand is folded around to you on the button and you look down and see 9h 9d. You make a standard raise to 150. SB folds and BB reraises all in. While deliberating, the BB accidentally flips his cards and you see he has As Ks. Would you call or fold and wait for a better spot later in the tourney?
 

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  #2  
03-07-2007, 10:31 PM
combuboom
it's a brand new era
 
Location: Florida
Plays at: Full Tilt
Likes: NL Hold 'em
Posts: 4,210
I fold... if I'm entering a tournament, I'm not doing so to look for coinflips, I'm doing so to look for edges because I think I'm better than the majority of players and can find those spots to give myself the best chance to do well.

We've only invested like 3% of our starting stack. The edge is just so miniscule that the chance of getting knocked out immediately overrides it, I think.

Also consider the fact that it folded around to the button. Because of this, there's a good chance the players who folded before you didn't have many, if any, big cards (aces or kings) in their hands, meaning there are probably more of them to be dealt on the board.
  #3  
03-07-2007, 10:35 PM
gord962
CardsChat Elite
 
Location: Edmonton
Plays at: Stars
Likes: NLHE
Posts: 1,648
Easy fold. In a cash game we call, tournament we fold.
  #4  
03-07-2007, 10:52 PM
shinedown.45
The Felt Reaper
 
Location: Winnipeg
Plays at: pokerstars
Likes: hold-em
Posts: 3,217
Whether live or online, this situation is an easy fold this early in a tourney.
I look at it this way, if your PP is not the type of PP that you would push UTG or from EP, then it simply isn't worth a coin-flip.
  #5  
09-07-2007, 4:43 PM
Wolfpack43ACC
CardsChat Regular
 
Location: Midlothian, VA
Plays at: Full Tilt
Likes: NL Hold'em
Posts: 367
AK offsuited? I call. I'm getting my chips in ahead, don't care if it's a coinflip or not. You miss the flop more than you hit it. Tournament poker isn't about surviving, but winning. I play to win, so I call.
  #6  
09-07-2007, 5:00 PM
robwhufc
Bloodsport? Nah, just fun
 
Location: Sittingbourne, UK
Posts: 5,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfpack43ACC
AK offsuited?
My God, No! It was AK SUITED!!!.

Dont see how this can be an "easy" fold? You've got slightly greater than even odds to slightly more than double your money. Strictly on that basis it's a call. For the "fold" side there's the argument that you're better than your opponents (but is that really true?) and can find better situations to increase your stack, and you'd get more play from your $100 investment. On the "call" side, there's a chance to immediately have double the stack of your opponents, and have the chance to use that critical mass to boss the table and get more chips. If you lose, you'll have wasted the minimum time possible (if you aren't going to cash, the best time to go out is early).

I don't know what i'd do really, but am voting "call" to givethe debate some balance.
  #7  
09-07-2007, 5:05 PM
Wolfpack43ACC
CardsChat Regular
 
Location: Midlothian, VA
Plays at: Full Tilt
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Posts: 367
I'd still call easily.
  #8  
09-07-2007, 5:20 PM
gord962
CardsChat Elite
 
Location: Edmonton
Plays at: Stars
Likes: NLHE
Posts: 1,648
I'm not about to put my tournament life on the line with a coinflip this early on. There are a million places later on where you can get your money in while well ahead. You will still have $4850 left in chips - I see absolutely no need to call this.
  #9  
09-07-2007, 5:34 PM
joeeagles
CardsChat Elite
 
Location: new jersey
Plays at: pokerstars
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Posts: 1,117
I think a good 95% here would say to fold. I have a better question. What if this is the end of the tourney? You're HU with 99, you raised PF he moves all-in, accidentally showing AK.

You're ahead in the chip count 2 to 1. Call or fold?
He's ahead 2 to 1. Call or fold?
Chip stacks are just about even. Call or fold?


1st place pays 5k, 2nd place pays 2.5k.
  #10  
09-07-2007, 5:35 PM
Wolfpack43ACC
CardsChat Regular
 
Location: Midlothian, VA
Plays at: Full Tilt
Likes: NL Hold'em
Posts: 367
You guys are way way way too worried about how much time has gone by in the tournament. Your in with the best hand preflop... if it doesn't hold, it doesn't hold.
  #11  
09-07-2007, 5:39 PM
alpha3m
Amateur Member
 
Location: Indiana, US
Plays at: FT-PS-Ultimatebet-Absolute Poker
Likes: Hold'em
Posts: 55
I'd have to say fold even though I sometimes like to call the two overpair all-in's with my slightly higher pocket pairs. Like it was said before, it's a coin flip, but initial percentages go your way.

Fact of the matter is, you only have 150 into the pot. To call another 4850, there's no pot odds, and given the person didn't jump the gun and flip the AK suited, you wouldn't know if you where facing a higher pp or complete garbage.

I agree with the posts that say wait, pick your spots, and don't put yourself into a position to get knocked out unless your at least 90% sure you have the best hand.

Just my two cents.
  #12  
09-07-2007, 5:45 PM
robwhufc
Bloodsport? Nah, just fun
 
Location: Sittingbourne, UK
Posts: 5,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by gord962
I'm not about to put my tournament life on the line with a coinflip this early on. There are a million places later on where you can get your money in while well ahead. You will still have $4850 left in chips - I see absolutely no need to call this.
Fair enough i'd probably fold too, but why would you fold here with 52% odds, yet call in a cash game - wouldn't you have a million better places there too?
  #13  
09-07-2007, 5:57 PM
gord962
CardsChat Elite
 
Location: Edmonton
Plays at: Stars
Likes: NLHE
Posts: 1,648
Quote:
Originally Posted by robwhufc
Fair enough i'd probably fold too, but why would you fold here with 52% odds, yet call in a cash game - wouldn't you have a million better places there too?
I can buy back in on a cash game, so with the slightest edge I will call if I am ahead. If I lose I can buy back in and have a shot at winning my chips back, esp if the donk is that loose to push 100BB. If this is a rebuy tournament I instacall, then if it holds, great, if not, rebuy.
  #14  
09-07-2007, 10:08 PM
combuboom
it's a brand new era
 
Location: Florida
Plays at: Full Tilt
Likes: NL Hold 'em
Posts: 4,210
Agree completely with gord
 



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