ChuckT's Starting hands

Just read ChuckT's 10K post.. very good!!

Was wondering if the starting hands he advises would be the starting hands to use in a limit game? I see that chuck plays NL and wondered if the starting hands would difffer between the two.


from chuckt's 10k post

Early position (UTG-UTG+1): Raise {AJs+, AQo+, TT+}, limp {22-99}
Middle position (MP1-MP3): Raise {ATs+, AJo+, KQs+, 66+}, limp {22-55}
Late position (CO-SB): Raise {most aces, most broadway, suited connectors, some offsuit connectors 22+}

Click to expand...

I have been playing a LOT of limit lately. From most of the books I have read those hands are fairly close. At a loose/passive table you can even add medium suited connectors to limp in with from early/middle position and any suited ace.

In the small blind with limpers you are correct in calling with any two suited cards.

Remember, in a tight/aggressive game with many raises preflop the suited connectors and small/medium pairs lose value from early/middle position.

FPaulsson would be the person to ask around here. Maybe he will pop in this thread.

Thanks dakotaxx. im new to this site. Whos FPaulson? Im assuming he's a limit holdem player.

Yea - he is one of our best.

Stu_Ungar said:

Just read ChuckT's 10K post.. very good!!

Was wondering if the starting hands he advises would be the starting hands to use in a limit game? I see that chuck plays NL and wondered if the starting hands would difffer between the two.

Click to expand...

There are some differences in which hands you'd play in NL versus LHE. Specifically you play a lot more speculative hands in no-limit (small pocket pairs, suited connectors) whereas you can be a bit more aggressive with high cards in limit hold 'em.

Generally speaking, I never open-limp when I play limit. If I had to construct a starting hands chart out of the blue for 6-max when you're the first one in, I'd say:

UTG: 22+, A8s+, ATo+, KJs+, KQo+, QJs, JTs
HJ: 22+, A5s+, A8o+, K8s+, KTo+, QTs+, QJo+, JTs+
CO: 22+, AXs+, A5o+, K4s+, K8o+, Q7s+, Q9o+, J8s+, J9o+, T8s+, T9o+
Button: 22+, AX, KX, QXs, Q4o+, J5s+, J7o+, T6s+, T7o+, 76s+, 87o+,

... checking now in Stove, it seems that the rough percentages for each position are:

UTG: ~13%
HJ: ~20%
CO: ~30%
Button: ~60%

Of course, this is only in the case where no one else has raised first in. If someone else has raised and/or limped, you're in a different seat. But that's a bit more complicated. And don't even get me started on playing from the blinds, heh. My best advice is really to invest in a book, preferably Ed Miller's "Small Stakes Hold 'em."

Oh, and rake matters a lot. If you play $1/$2-$3/$6, steal less than 60% on the button. I'd guess more like 45%. Rake eats all the profit that you could get from the extra 15 percentage points of hands.

Thanks

I am actually reading SSH right now.

In fact thats the reason for tthis post. Way more hands are reconmended than ppl on this site seem to advocate.

I have never seen a table where 6-9 on average play the flop so am using the tight ranges given there. Even so the range seems bigger than whats suggested here.

Pre flop I stick to the rules in the book.

One question though is if I raise and am reraised do I treat that as playing against a raise or a reraise? (as far as the pre flop rules given in the book)

I guess where my game is the weakest is post flop.. there is a lot to consider. Right now I seem to raise alomst anything I play .. or fold if I donty think its worth playing.

If you raise and someone else 3-bets you, you can never fold because of the huge pot odds you're getting. How tight you should be about four-betting (capping, usually) depends on who raised you, of course.

Limit is almost entirely a game of equity; a combination of fold- and showdown equity. I might 3-bet pocket deuces on the button both because I think my equity is good, but also because it increases my fold equity postflop. This differs a lot from NL.

In Limit you're unlikely to be all in pre-flop and still gain some value from your position. No Limit, being aggressive pre-flop with deuces could mean ending up in a coin flip for all your chips and wasting the advantage of position. After the rake that all-in coin flip may be a loser even if you're ahead.