Check-Raising overrated?

My experience with check raising only really works when I am bluff check raising. When I pick up a monster, check raising is one of the farthest things from my mind. In my experience, check raising gives your opponents an even better excuse to exit the hand.

Sure check raising gets you that extra little chips from the guy with nothing, but I feel that the play is overrated unless your opponent has the second nuts to your stone cold nuts.

the only time I really check raise is when its the river, and I am holding close to the nuts and I know that my opponent will bet at the pot.

Any thoughts on the move?
Is it overrated or am I not using it enough?

Lets create a poll!

It has it's spots but generally I like to lead with monsters because it'll build a bigger pot and disguise your hand more.

dbitel covers the topic nicely here: Leading out vs C/R

c/r is like the pump-fake in basketball imo

I think it realy depends on the situation. If I want a call, and I think I can get it, I'll bet.

If a player is in a situation where he bets all the time, I choose check raise. I use checkraise quite a lot in Turbo if I know I have the winning hand.

I usually check-raise when I have a big hand. Maybe I do it a bit too often.

Since most players DON'T use the check raise, or even the reraise, they don't have a good enough understanding of what it's power is.

There are a lot of players who overuse it.

It is a tool. It is a bit more powerful than an intentional minraise with monsters. Stick it in your poker toolbag and bring it out when it is the right tool to use.

it's a mistake, in my opinion, if you're not check raising in other spots. i love playing against people who never check raise. they're usually pretty easy to play against. once they check to me on the flop or turn, i can make my decision virtually knowing i don't have to worry about being raised if i bet and also knowing they're rarely strong. it's quite a luxury. these days you risk becoming too predictable if you're really rarely check raising. that being said, it's not the be-all end-all and you don't wanna overuse it either

I think the C/R is better in live play than online.
People will call anything online and slow play monsters alot .
Online its easier to C/R your chips away IMO especially when the nuts turns into the second best hand by the river.

There's an interesting accompaniment to this - in my (admittedly brief) experience, players like the ones you describe rarely recognise the strength represented by your check-raise either.

This bodes ill if you're using it as a bluff, of course, but it can be a way to get more of their money into the pot if you think they'd have just called a straight value bet.

Having said all that, I probably don't check-raise enough.

I would only do it if I have little doubt in my mind that my opponent is going to bet if I check.

I would have to agree and say it's one of the most powerful tools of NLHE, and probably one of the last moves/plays a player learns & will truly understand when attempting to implement the game in an efficient manner. That's my opinion, I'm surely no pro, but, It's probably a good idea to know your opponent. Check that link above.

Not to take the thread off topic or anything....T1riel, I'm just wondering, are you playing mainly live or online these days?

Since every player is so aggressive these days, checkraising is certainly a viable option.

I much prefer a checkcall though. All the overaggressive players usually misinterpret it as weakness and bet out a 2nd time. I've stacked people who had Ace King high that way. You can really get people to bluff their money away.

This is Phil Hellmuth's style of playing. And it really does work, especially on the internet where everybody and their mother thinks they have to win every pot and be aggressive all the time.

Let's look at some situations:

1. You have monster, other guy has drawing hand
I'd never check-raise here, gives a free card if they don't bet

2. You think you have the nuts and opponent is drawing dead
If they simply have a lesser monster (such as set over set), a bet will work just as well as a check raise, and they'll probably even raise your bet, which you can then re-raise. If they have crap, check-raising gives you an extra bet. But check-calling gives them another opportunity to bluff at it

3. You have the lesser hand, but you're drawing to a better one
Although it works as a semi-bluff (and a free card if they check behind you), the problem is you give action back to your opponent, they can then raise, forcing you to fold. The best would be a call and then you hitting, and your hand would be very well disguised

4. You have the lesser hand, and you only win if they fold
This is the place I like it the most. If you're with an opponent who likes to steal a lot with cbets, you can check and then raise their cbet. Most of the time they'll fold, unless they really have a hand.

Live.

It's a great move against an aggressive opponent when you hit a monster, but you need a pretty good reaf on the other player, 'cause you want value, and checking to someone who checks behind doesn't get it. Normally, as Chuck pointed out, leading with a strong hand often gets better results.

But, say you hit a dream flop, boat on the flop for example. I will often check, and if you get a bet, check call first; check again at 4th st., and then hit the rerause. There's little risk involved, and the worst that can happen is villain will slow down and check behind, but if this happens you were gonna lose him anyway..

Because I play at low stakes, I find using the check/raise as a bluff is very dangerous; you'll be in against opponents who don't understand the concept.

imo there is nothing worse than a check-raise bluff that goes wrong. I normally dont do it on a ragged flop. Normally i will check raise bluff when there is a QQ5 on the board or something like that because if they are betting, most likely they are bluffing as well and it is very easy to represent that Q.

I stand by the post I made when I was drunk. (read above)

doesnt seem like you are drunk....
then again i hardly drink and probably wouldnt know the difference

Well, at the time, I was like, "This probly won't even make any sense", but I still posted it, and now that I think about it, it's a perfect analogy, DUCY?

yea its a very nice post, you should try playing drunk some time....against me

and i might need clarification on the word "DUCY"

Heads-up 4 rollz tonight after Pats game?

Acronym, try to pronounce it out loud.

lol you'll maybe play if the ravens win

translation: when hell freezes over

precisely my plan

i have never seen him play, so i do not want to end up losing all me monies

i'm bad go look at HHs in random events. i open with J2o and stuff.

oh man you are good!

i cant play you!

i will lose all me lucky charms ...err...pot o gold....errr
my money will be gone!

DUCY = Do you see why?

ohhhhhhh

yes i see why...

lol