Cash Game Agression..

So having played a few tournaments and realised that the money is in cash games Ive hit a mental wall if you like.
Aggression in tourneys are awesome when it comes to stealing blinds and antes especially in the latter stages and more so if you have a great image. However, in cash games it seems to be futile. Stealing blinds means no risk but also almost no money. Yes Ive won "x" amount of hands being aggressive and also had no risk in doing so but it doesnt seem to make my bankroll much healthier after 2 hours of aggressive play.
How do I get out of this mindset and how do I adapt my strategy?

oh, as a "p.s" - How long do I stay in a cash game?

(apologies but I felt I should try and kill 2 birds with one stone rather than rinse the forum threads)

Cheers people!

Stealing blinds is probably the most fundamental part of cash games. You have to steal on a regular basis or your gonna get crushed by the blinds, especially in 6mx. You have to adjust your range depending on villains, but effectively your playing pots in position, so why wouldn't you wanna steal. You don't have to go and steel with any 2, although sometimes it's possibly depending on villains, but you really have to improve this part of your game if your not stealing enough. Read some of the cash game stickies, if your new to cash.

Yeah I try to raise with a lot of hands from the button and the cutoff if I have tight players to my left. I try to change up the cards I play and the best time to do that is in position, of course.
Then, when I get a hand, having it disguised as a steal is nice and can work wonders.

Your bankroll isn't going to get much healthier after 2 hours of anything.

Keep in mind that a winrate of 5bb/100 is decent, succesfuly stealing the blinds once every ten orbits of the button is a huge addition to your winrate (I'm just using 10 orbits as an extreme example, you should be attempting it a lot more often than that).

With that said, blind stealing really isn't the same thing in cash games as tournaments. In tournaments you don't want them to call but in cash you want them to call because there is more post-flop play and your position is worth more.

Everything is relative, you are taking a large risk relative to your possible gain.

I suppose it can be said then that to be dissappointed stealing blinds in cash games is just greedy?
I think I understand what your saying, i have been succcessful in stealing blinds in position with almost no hand and having that image has also helped me do the same out of position. Being reletively new to the game im on low stakes but can it be said that stealing blinds,having position and a good image works better as you go up the ladder? The reason I say this is because ive heard the phrase "Well I called because it was only 15 cents" a number of times which to me seems just idiotic and hampers the fact that we all want to improve our game as opposed to becoming high stakes gamblers.

Yes, you could say that that is getting greedy. Think of it this way, Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will your BR. Blind stealing is only a part of the overall puzzle. If you are having a difficult time seeing the results of your blind steals and table aggression, then you should review your hand history and look for leaks in your game. Are you calling instead of raising? Are you stealing in pots that have already been entered or raised before the action got to you? Are you trying to steal with players left to act behind you? What action are you making post flop? These are the things that I would be looking at. But that's just me.

Also, you will see a lot more loose calls in micro limits. At higher stakes, it is conceivable to play back at steal attempts and induce a fold. Micro stakes, not so much.

I have never been aggressive on cash tables and if I have I didn't win a lot of money with it.
Cash game is about being passive I think , u should limp in with connectors, like T-Js or T-9s and hope u hit a straight or a flush. Another option is to wait for Big Cards and play them.
I think bluff isn't worthy on cash tables, if everybody have at least 100-200 BBs. Maybe I'm wrong, it's my tactic. GL on tables

Wrong. Cash game is selective aggression rather than constant aggression. With constant aggression, you become get caught by becoming pot committed with marginal hands. You win small pots and lose big ones. But, with selective aggression you can take advantage of multiple steal points in a hand and you can exploit the weakness in your opponents game. You just have to be observant enough to know when to take advantage, and when to back away.

6 max and 9 max are completely different. 9 max is about patience, waiting for that hand, and ****ing over your opponents - especially when deep stacked, this means seeing a flop with suited connectors, low pps...obviously if you're in late position and there's no raises in front of you, you can think about stealing, but this is not the main thing in cash games. When you're all deep-stacked it's just a matter of patience in terms of getting that big hand.

Eh cash games are too much pressure for me lol.. tournaments are much simpler :P.

To me, another advantage of cash is the ability to use your table image much better than if you were in a tournament. In tournaments, I often only know if players are loose or tight before being moved and starting all over.
In cash games, its more of strategy game and more tactics can come into play.

+1.
I have gotten countless free orbits with this move.

If they are a nit and not playing a lot of hands and you suspect they're on multiple tables, take their blinds. They'll let you.

Just wondering, do you observe the table for a few minutes before you sit down or do you just sit and start observing while playing?? I'm wondering if its worth the effort of observation and taking notes before claiming a seat. Also, do you go for fullish 9 player or 6 player tables?

Ive been playing at 6 max mainly because its faster and ive had more success but ive wondered about observation because when i have observed 9 times out of 10 the players i had notes on leave the table after 5-6 hands which means i end up observing whilst playing as the new players arrive. This has made me decide to now only observe whilst playing, is that a bad thing?

I like 6 max. And I ussually don't wait. I play one table at a time, so it opens up for an loose aggressive tricky playstyle after I get a good feel for the other players. When I multi table, I'll make my active table the aggressive ones. Ussually 2-3 tight players on my left, and a donk on my right is my dream.

I'm an impatient person, so I don't monitor tables and try to get a feel for it's productivity, I'll sit, and if it's not the kind of table I can make money at, I'll find another table, and play a much tighter game.

Of course the stats available to me at the beginning make all the difference.

So table choice is a factor but that means possibly paying in some money to get a feel for the table?

When do you know that its time to stop playing for the day (ive trouble knowing when to leave)?

I guess thats where Holdem Manager would come in handy then? Its way easier especially if you're going to multitable...

Against tight oponents with high fold to steal (add that to your hud) we're stealing pretty much any two. If they have a high fold to c-bet (add that too) aswell that's perfect. If they have an average fold to steal but a high fold to c-bet then we want to raise a big percentage of hands, think any two suited and then some then kick their stupid ass post-flop.

However if they defend their blinds and don't fold to c-bets leave them alone, we want to play good hands against these guys and take their money post-flop.

Trust me, stealing is a gold mine, especially lose passives that call pre and fold alot post-flop. It is a necessary part of cash game play.


^^ Answer to an above question:
When I sit down i'll probably steal with fairly good hands SC's and connectors, Pairs, and big little suited as well as obvious big cards, are good to start. Then we get a feel as to wether we should tighten or loosen up. We can open any two against the right villains.

I agree with acezwyid. You cannot use a constant aggressive strategy in cash games. You have to be more selective. You can be aggressive with medium strength-strong hands, but that is about it. This will keep you less pot committed with horrible hands and should hopefully prevent more disasters.

You want to be aggressive with either strong hands or trash hands, not medium strength hands unless you know your opponent will call with worse.

Like I said, I play 6 max. 6 Max is a little of a looser game than FR, however when people start showing stats of 12/12/0 six/seven hands in, I've posted 2.5 BBs and know I can steal their BBs should their traits continue.

As for when to get up?

I would reccomend you set a limit for yourself. Make a quick little notepad or excel entry - name of table, max players, blinds, time you came to the table, how much you bought in for, and how much you're going to try to win. (Say, 30% of a buy-in). Or how much you're willing to lose. Once you're up 30% of a buy-in, or whatever limit you set yourself to, leave the table.

At least until you know where you're at. For instance, I found that when I'm playing a loose-aggressive hit and run game - I play one table, buy in for 50 BBs, when I get to 75 BBs I leave the table. And I'm ussually good for about 2 hours before I see a decline in my win rate, then I chalk it up to fatigue, and take a break.