Card dead with a medium stack?

Originally Posted by slycbnew

This is one of those "it depends" things. Below is not an exhaustive set of considerations.

FR or 6max?

What's the flop texture? J32r is unlikely to hit anyone, JT9 two toned is likely to have hit someone. Tend to cbet flops that are going to miss everyone, tend to not cbet flops that you missed but hit your opponents' ranges hard.

What are the stakes, and how good are your opponents? Are they good enough to realize that J32r likely completely missed you as well, or are they playing fit or fold based on their own two cards? Have they showndown a float? How much do they raise the flop/turn?

Originally Posted by zeeduh

FR, one of the flops I remember playing particularly badly was As5h7h or something. I cbet with like half the pot and he calls two streets. There was another ace on the turn and he didn't reraise, so I put him on a flush draw. Sure enough he showed down trips and scooped the pot with A4 offsuit. I try to study the texture of the flop a lot but I seem to be usually either trying to get reads off my opponents or just thinking about their range. Any tips on forming a habit when seeing a flop?

A couple, others may have more:

Who are you playing against?

1. Have you seen him showdown any hands yet?
2. How frequently is he seeing the flop? I'm not sure if you're using a HUD or not, but the more frequently the more random junk, the less frequently he shows up w "good" hands.
3. How often is he 3betting? If very infrequently, then his range includes some pretty strong hands, if frequently, his range is a bit weaker.
4. What's his position? If he's any good, the closer he is to the button, the more speculative hands he'll be playing.

What kinds of hands can continue given the flop?

1. Connected two toned middle card flops hit the range pretty hard of someone who's calling a preflop raise. 2 pair hands, straight draws, gutshots, and flush draws all continue - your cbet is relatively likely to be called, so if you completely whiffed this isn't the greatest spot to cbet.
2. Paired boards, esp where the unpaired card is low and nowhere near the pair (i.e., TT3), are relatively safe. Pairs , overcards, trips, fh all continue, but not much else can, and alot of what does continue will have to fold to a turn bet.
3. Random uncoordinated flops, say A84r. Not a heckuva lot can continue here, basically Ax, sets, and 99+. If your cbet is called, expect your turn bet to produce a lot of folds from 99-QQ, calls from Ax and the occasional middle pair, and raises from sets.

Back to "who are you playing against"

Is Villain good enough to realize what your cbets mean, and where you've likely missed the flop as well? Are they likely to play back at you understanding that you may have to fold?

Stakes .25/50 NL, opponents are okay and usually play every week. They probably aren't good enough to realize a dry board didn't hit me. Some 50nl players will realize this, but I agree that the majority aren't thinking at that level. Figuring out who is who isn't too hard. They've shown down like 1 float maybe, but thats because we were playing deuce seven. They raise the flop/turn a lot if I'm not raising. I guess it's my fault that I didn't realize they're probably calling with a hand or a strong draw... but on the chance that they're on a draw I was hoping to steal the pot when the draw didn't hit (case in point, the flush draw). Is this a bad decision? You want to practice your reads - it can work, but you have to pick your spots very carefully. Don't rely on it as your bread and butter, though, 50nl is beatable without fps, and this type of play can produce some largescale spewing (I'm an excellent example fwiw ).

Originally Posted by slycbnew

..

Originally Posted by Numbuh 0ne

Some standard rules of thumb I try to go by are:
Never cbet trash oop against multiple opponents
Always tread lightly against multiples
Access the villians range and if he would call with overs
Is this board really a dry board
What's my table image, this can be very important
I pretty much always cbet the button
I pretty much always cbet against blinds

Just a couple of things that help me out, I get in those situations sometimes where I'm just not hitting so if my tables tighter I raise more than normal preflop than usual to take down more hands preflop. Against a looser table I tighten up and fold a lot more, try to hit a monster hand.