C9's Special 4,875th post.

I hate "4000th post" type posts. Why the hell does the fact that a number ends in three zeros make it special. Who knows.

So anyways, I give you my 4875th poast. Its going to be a special one, in that I have no idea what I'm going to write about. I'm just going to grumble like an old man for a few paragraphs while I'm waiting for my crap to come out of the microwave.

First of all, here's a list of shit good players do:

1) They follow absolutely bat shit crazy bankroll management. In most forums, the conventional wisdom is always 20 buy ins. Any decent player I know that plays stakes where the money is significant uses WAY MORE than 20 buy ins. This is no shen.

2) They are logical, reasonable, and while they all might not be great at math, they recognize when its useful. Often in a hand analysis post, there's no right answer. However, even if two good players are in a disagreement, they'll almost always make a logical, sound argument for what the right course of action is.

3) They talk strategy. I can't tell you the number of times I've sat on AIM and just exchanged hand histories with people. BW (banned) and I would sit on AIM firing hands to each other, responding with "WTF, how can you possibly call there, there's no way villain can get to the river with anything he can turn into a bluff". If you're just playing, sitting in your own little world, with your own little perspective, you're going to suck.

4) They don't tilt (well, okay, they at least have learned to tilt less). Player poker well isn't hard. Playing poker well when you've just lost 15 buy ins to that stupid fish is probably harder than trying to do calculus while two hot girls give you a blow job. Once players start getting good (aka, when you start playing stakes above micros) tilt accounts for the vast majority of your leaks. I rarely played Stud 8 higher than $10/$20, but when I did it usually involved my buddies shooting me a message saying something like "OMFG, there's a fish at $30/$60, and [Good Reg] is tilting so hard".

Okay, I'm bored talking about that.

One thing I think bad players don't understand well is what your edge is. Your edge, if I were to write it as a formula, would read like this:

Edge = [(How well you play) - (How well others play)] - Rake

You can control all of these variables, and by god you should. And oddly enough, the hardest variable to change (how well you play) is the one that people spend the most time messing with. They read books, study, post on forums. But they won't even think about the other two.

Minimize the rake by playing at stakes that aren't raked to shit. My thoughts immediately go to the 10c/20c games on pokerstars. The max rake is 20c, or one big bet. That's insane. At 50c/$1, the max rake is 50c. You essentially double your win rate just because you're not paying through the nose to be dealt hands.

And you can control how well the "others" are playing by not sitting in games with good players. Your profit comes from finding players who are worse than you, and eating them. So when you find yourself sitting at a table, and there's these two regs who just keep 3-betting you and, BY GOD IF I COULD JUST WAIT FOR A HAND I'M GONNA STACK THEM! Leave. You might be better than them, but who cares, the rake is probably eating all the tiny edge you had anyways.

And one last thing. I think this forum is 99% morons. There are 70K members or something ridiculous like that, and there's probably 100 who's posts I think have graduated beyond bullshit. However, whenever someone new shows themselves to be part of this 1%, it makes me very happy. So if you are new, speak up, contribute. Don't be afraid that I'll think you're a moron. Because I already think you're a moron. The only way you can un-moron yourself is by contributing.

K, my crap is out of the microwave, its 1AM, I'm still at work. I must leave.

I get the butterflies in my stomache when I do PT Tests.

Congrats on your 4,875th post C9. Nice thread, full of common sense, but you know, sometimes its nice to see it written down.

I'm pretty sure I'm in the 99% league on this site.

With that said, who are some members that I (and others) should keep an eye on in this forum?

Also, nice post.

Keep an eye on me. I might say/do anything at any moment.

C9, a moron's question here: In your statement below, when do you actually pay a rake? Does everyone that gets cards pay or just those who engage in the hand? How often does rake occur? Strange they choose a term that so closely sounds like "rape"? Could you explain further how this rape happens?

C9 stated:
"Minimize the rake by playing at stakes that aren't raked to shit. My thoughts immediately go to the 10c/20c games on pokerstars. The max rake is 20c, or one big bet. That's insane. At 50c/$1, the max rake is 50c. You essentially double your win rate just because you're not paying through the nose to be dealt hands."

Also, any specific advice on how one can best obtain "rakeback" once they have been playing a site like FullTilt and PokerStars for over two years without having benefit of it? I have written to each site, but nothing but the run-a-round.

Thanks for your insight.., Wally.good stuff

http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/rake/

rake is taken from the pot before it's distributed to the winner(s).

One of the worst threads ever. Loved every word of it!!

Congrats C9.

Better keep both eyes closed when you see one of my posts .

I think if you have trouble understanding what is being dicussed in a thread that is a good thing, sometimes because it means these posters are usally discussing concepts that you dont understand so you can try learn the stuff in that thread.

Also its great you think 99% of the people are morons but you have to remember as much as your posts are spot on most peoples first reaction to being called a moron is to think well fk you too pal and then switch off or change thread which would be a shame. This is probally not going to get the changes you wish for the forum. Thanks for making the thread though and contributing so much to the site you have already made me think about changing sites to better rake situation depending on how that site is run.

Congrats on whatever post you just made (I have already forgotten the number lol).

And I love you even if you did just call me a moron.

You're honest ("you all suck") and make sense.

Nice post.

what a bullshit post man, you are not actually telling us anything useful, like you tell us to use more than 20 buy ins for a level, anyone who reads 2-3 threads on this forum knows it is at least 30 buy ins, in fact i don't think i have seen anyone on this forum saying you should play with 20 buy ins.

than you go on about talking about you pay less rakes at higher stakes "Minimize the rake by playing at stakes that aren't raked to shit." if i have 700$ in my account should i go play 50c/1$ just because i pay less rake?

Alright, here is another bad idea by c9: "And you can control how well the "others" are playing by not sitting in games with good players" what about someone who is multitableing at lets say 10nl, wins slightly only by 2 BB/100, but meanwhile he gets the 100% deposit bonus, also gets the micromania that has been going on, gets tons of FPPs, lets say he wins 100$ at the cash table, 100$ 100% deposit bonus and another 50 from the stellar rewards and fpss, should this person drop back at 2nl because he can crush everyone at 6BB/100? i dont think so. i am not saying that you shouldn't leave a game where you are obviously a fish, but any slight edge you have is good enough if you know how to make it work, you don't necesarily have to crush them as you say.

here is some more quotes that don't connect with each other: "However, even if two good players are in a disagreement, they'll almost always make a logical, sound argument for what the right course of action is."
and than this happens when c9 and a friend are exchanging hands
"WTF, how can you possibly call there, there's no way villain can get to the river with anything he can turn into a bluff".

grats on the 4875 post, but i am still waiting for the one that's worth reading. i bet my post will get deleted now, sure i can't insult c9 but he can call everyone a moron.

Un-moron yourself - thats moronic

Congrats on the 4785 posts looking forward to the 5213th though


*btw good points made

POTY, IMO.

but you're really bad at math. 100/70k = 0.14 % <<<<< 1%

Well, I get it, you were really trying to be nice ...

Congrats on the 4875 posts from one of the morons, personally I am glad we have morons here, if it wasnt for the morons and this site only had poker posts it would would be a boring site.

I don't believe you, but I'm willing to be the test case to prove / disprove your theory.

I think he just did prove his own theory by totally miscalculating 100/70k = 1%. That is, assuming he was getting some while posting this...

I think C9 likes to call people morons so he feels better about being one.



lol j/k great post!

Maybe I didn't say the exact number, but while I was playing 100NL+, I had about 100 buy ins. I know most regs have at least 40, most even more than that.

Yeah, that's 700 big bets.

Thems the breaks :O

Think harderrrrzzzz.

Oh, and all of you are of course in the top 1%. But that was a given.

Im not but ty for the thought anyway made my day a little brighter.

I knew that - just wanted to make you admit it.

Hey C9,

Interesting post

I've been hearing from reading some stuff on 2+2 that the 50NL games on Stars are actually pretty tough and that regs who drop down into them don't crush as they expect?

What's your take on the matter?

take this #$% to the drunk poast thread...and you were at work too..LMAO!!

seriously...i read a lot of ur HAs and posts with great interest and dwell on them in regards to hands i have played and what went wrong or right. I am always looking to improve and ur criticism, skepticism, humor and downright belligerency have contributed a lot to that...and i like the part about controlling how others play..cept maybe in a reverse kind of way .i use this in most live trny formats where u pick who u wanna get involved with in hands vs the ones u wanna steer clear of w/o the outright nuts...as in not trying to outplay the 94 preflop raise caller who continually luckboxes and the word FOLD is not in their vocabulary...thanks C9, and i look forward to more healthy, wealthy and wise reading down the road....


dax........out

Stars gives rakeback based on volume, and I never played enough hands per month to get more than FTP or Ultimatebet's rakeback. So I never played there any higher than midget stakes.

Nice post. When I first joined here you were one of the first to respond to a thread I started and in there you taught me what "M" in a tournament was. Ty for that. Alas my poker skills still suck but always enjoy reading your posts. Am a big fan of sarcasm even if it's pointed in my direction and you are one of the better ones here. Doubt this post will un-moronize myself by kissing your fanny a little but I'm a big boy and can live with that.

Great post as usual, C9. Congrats as well.

Oh, and LOL @ "Thems the breaks".

Whole different meaning this side of the Atlantic...

Splain please

Its the opposite side of your meaning but on a woman

congrats on the 4XXXX posts i agree with much of what u say. It shows that u know a lot about what u post. Great to have u here.

Hehehe, how to explain....a front bottom?

Oops, misread your post. I thought your definition of Edge was How well you play minus how well my opponent plays equals rake. It seemed perfectly correct to me, because I am basically a breakeven player but the rake takes away whatever profit generally I would realize. However, just like eating at a restaurant or watching a fine movie, I do not mind leaving the house a little something for providing a place to enjoy myself. Congrats on your whatever number post you wrote. Quite a lot of nuggets of info you must have handed out over this period of time.

You couldn't even imagine C9's nuggets.