Okay, here's your situation. Lets say you hold something like 88. The board flops 10 10 2 rainbow. How would you play this? As a rule, I'll typically fold because I find that someone will usually have the 10 to make it trips and I won't catch my 8 to make my boat. I'm very curious as to how others handle this

of course it is situational, but generally, if i would bet it. if no one is holding a 10 its your pot. i would not call anything. if you get a caller then check/fold.

when cards are running your way you will win ever time. when they're running bad, someone will be holding pocket 10s.

Originally Posted by digdug

of course it is situational, but generally, if i would bet it. if no one is holding a 10 its your pot. i would not call anything. if you get a caller then check/fold.

when cards are running your way you will win ever time. when they're running bad, someone will be holding pocket 10s.

Okay, lets go along with this line of play because it will help illustrate a weakness in my game. Lets suppose you put out a value bet and it gets called. You do for the same for the turn and river. Nothing scary on either street. The OP turns over trips 10's and you lose.

This would frustrate me to no end as the loser of the hand. I'm chasing something knowing at best i have a 8% and 4% chance of hitting my boat. Plus if I was looking at this from the winners perspective, I'm just adding to my winning pot.

The people who slowplay big hands are the ones that can really do some damage to me. I just don't play well against it

if you get a call on your flop bet then you're probably beat. at that point, check on the turn and river. if the OP bets then you fold.

Well generally, if i have something like 88, I'll raise PF.
I always play a tight aggressive game, so if that flopped, i usually wouldn't be worried about a player calling with a hand with a ten in it, so i'd make my usual continuation bet.
One thing to remember, is that a paired board on the flop is way less scary then a paired turn or river card.
It's less likely that someone holds that card if it flopped, than if it came on the turn. This is because if someone called your flop bet then the turn came, obviously it would be more likely that he held one of the cards on the flop, and hence maybe the card that just paired.

Anyways, like was said above, this is situational.
But if i had raised PF, i'd throw my usual flop bet out, and play it from there.
Had it been a multiway pot PF, then i'd be much more cautious on the flop and try to show my hand down if possible

Okay, lets go along with this line of play because it will help illustrate a weakness in my game. Lets suppose you put out a value bet and it gets called. You do for the same for the turn and river. Nothing scary on either street. The OP turns over trips 10's and you lose.

If you get a call on the flop, then alarm bells should go off in your head. Do NOT continue betting. Show it down if possible. Just as digdug said. Easy as that.
In situations like that, medeiros, you have to stop and think "what could he have that he would call me down with? Why is he calling me?"
Usually the answer is that he has you beat.

Bet about 3x the BB pre-flop, to weed out people that may have 10 3 offsuit. When you see the flop has a pair, CHECK! You cant lose any more money with a check. If you've been playing with this opponent for several hands, you can usually tell if they play tight or loose. If their typical style is tight, and their betting into YOU, they probably have a quality hand.

Cash Games
You have to bet this out to see where you stand. I would check it down if the board was 10 10 x where x is higher than your pair. For this example, I would fire out a 3/4 to pot size bet. That is enough to scare the two high cards hands out. You check and it goes around you just let someone try to hit a higher pair for free with their Ax or whatever they are playing. The hard part is that AK will call alot of times. They are thinking they may be still ahead and/or hoping to out chase the smaller pairs with their 6 outs to your 2 to make the boat.

If I have position and someone bets into me with a 1/2 to 3/4 pot size bet I may even reraise. It is the only way to really know what they have. I look at is as investing my turn bet now and try to take the hand. Instead of just calling another bet on the turn I am using it now to see where I am at. The other person will more than likely check on the turn and you have the option to and can see the river for free. If the fire out on the turn then it is an easy laydown knowing I am beat. It will remove someones attempt to steal and the only callers you will get are the ones with the 10.

Tournaments
Since chips are more valuable I would do one bet on the flop and if called I would be alot more tempted to let it go especially if the turn is a A or K.

bet the flop, check-call the turn, play for showdown, fold to river push. I mean that in a headsup pot. In a multi-way pot, if 2 or more players give action, get out. You can't let yourself get bluffed everytime there is possible trips on the board. I think some of you underestimate the frequency and situations that people will run bluffs.

Originally Posted by ChuckTs

If you get a call on the flop, then alarm bells should go off in your head. Do NOT continue betting. Show it down if possible. Just as digdug said. Easy as that.
In situations like that, medeiros, you have to stop and think "what could he have that he would call me down with? Why is he calling me?"
Usually the answer is that he has you beat.

Before I start, thank you to everyone who responded. I got a lot of interesting ideas.

Chuck, I wanted to start with this because of what I've experienced playing. In a lot of my game experience, when someone calls the value bet, it is because they hit the smaller pair and they're not ready to leave the hand. In my scenario, my pocket 8's would stand up. That's why I say continue to throw out the value bets. Your point is well taken when you say STOP and figure out why you're getting called. My opinion is that I'm getting called because the OP either has two live over cards, hit the smaller pair, or already has trips and is building up their winning pot. Two out of these scenario's are advantagous to me at this point in the hand.

Jessie, I like the idea of checking and I will do that often. Unfortunately, that often puts me in the same scenario. I'm looking at a small bet, what do I do now?? Do I call it and make it look like I'm along for the ride. I do have SOME strength in this hand with my 8's and I don't like to represent weakness when I'm not completely weak at this point. The positives to checking is that a big bet to me is telling as can be and I"m gone without much loss at all.

Titans, I really like some of your ideas. I really like the idea of raising a value bet to see where you stand. I was actually watching the WPT earlier and say the same play made in this type of situation. It was a semi bluff attempt by Barry Greenstein and when his opponent jumped all over him with a raise, he folded quickly.

Originally Posted by medeiros13

Your point is well taken when you say STOP and figure out why you're getting called. My opinion is that I'm getting called because the OP either has two live over cards, hit the smaller pair, or already has trips and is building up their winning pot. Two out of these scenario's are advantagous to me at this point in the hand.

i semi-agree
i don't know about fishing for overcards (unless he is a very weak player), I personally would never call a bet with AK and TTx showing, unless i knew the opponent to be bluffing (which would require a shitload of info)
Then again if you think you have a good enough read on your opponent and what he has, of course keep betting if you think you're ahead, but be cautious if he calls the turn again if it drops a blank.

Value betting, and information betting is some of the strongest plays you can make. Playing on Pokerstars i have noticed several times you can win the pot outright with a bet, and if someone has you completely whacked they will raise and you can get away from the hand. I don't know how many times i've bet 1/4 - 1/2 the pot with middle pair and just won right out.

lets look at this situation a bit closer... lets assume for sec


You have J♥J♦ and the flop is 10♠10♣2♥

what do you do here? If you said bet, you're right. YOu have an over pair, and only a QKA on the turn/ river a ten, or a pair of twos in hole will beat you. 10/2 and 10/10 has you drawing dead, so betting here is the right choice. You're ahead of everything except AA, KK, QQ, 22 and any 10. anyone holding a 10 will almost SURELY raise you, at which point you can safely release the hand.

Is there really any difference if you're holding say...

8♥8♦ ?? Not really. Sure there are two more over cards that can come and cripple your hand. 9, and jack - but lets say that villian is a half-way decent player and is holding JQ or A9. Against a bet here, there is almost no way they can call. And if you bet enough, it would be WRONG for them to do so based on odds. In fact you WANT them to call against the odds because you'll make money on that play in the long run. Again, a raise here likely means your beaten and you can safely throw away your hand. A call is almost always going to indicate a 2 or two live overs. I think betting here is the best play.

Please don't take this the wrong way:

Originally Posted by medeiros13

Lets say you hold something like 88. The board flops 10 10 2 rainbow.

No, it doesn't, unless the dealer made a mistake. Before the board flops anything, there has to be a betting sequence. And that betting is absolutely critical to how I would play this, along with the relative positions of the people doing the betting.

Even if we just presume that there were no raises preflop, I still can't make any attempt at answering without knowing at least how many others are in the pot with me, along with my position and (if I'm not in first position) what their actions have been to me so far.

And is this limit or no-limit?

Originally Posted by F Paulsson

Please don't take this the wrong way:

No, it doesn't, unless the dealer made a mistake. Before the board flops anything, there has to be a betting sequence. And that betting is absolutely critical to how I would play this, along with the relative positions of the people doing the betting.

Even if we just presume that there were no raises preflop, I still can't make any attempt at answering without knowing at least how many others are in the pot with me, along with my position and (if I'm not in first position) what their actions have been to me so far.

And is this limit or no-limit?

fp has a good point. alot of what we say has alot to deal with position, chip stacks, betting structure, reads, and previous action. the real answer to these questions are almost always "it depends" but generally speaking, i'd bet on this flop.

Originally Posted by digdug

when cards are running your way you will win ever time. when they're running bad, someone will be holding pocket 10s.

This is just brilliant digdug.