Bluffing when a player is all in

Hi all,

I seen this in the freeroll and it REALLY bugged me. It's also Daniel Negranu's pet peeve too (if you don't know who he is, he's been named the cardplayer of the year by Cardplayer mag).

Let me give the situation:

Player 1 - ALL IN PREFLOP (10-9 offsuit)
Player 2 - Call (7-2 offsuit)
Player 3 - Call A-K
Player 4 - Call 3-3

OK. Flop comes Q-8-4 Rainbow. Player 3 and 4 wisely check, and player 2 decides to try to "bluff" and raises. 3 and 4 fold, and player 1 wins with his 10 high. (Assuming bricks on trun and river)

Not only did player 2 not get any chips, HE ALLOWED THE ALL IN PLAYER TO SURVIVE!! Which is huge in tournamnent play.

Please, please do not be like player 2!

I think thats all happened to us all at some point or another.

Something that may be worth mentioning for those new to tournament poker:

When a player is knocked out then you get one step closer to the money, leaving them with some chips means someone else still in who can beat you. If your not going to beat the guy all in bluffing at the pot knocking the winning hand out to win a small side pot usually isn't worth doing. Best off just checking it down.

Of course I would disagree if there is a somewhat sizeable sidepot up for grabs.

The situation described by Hesh though, there was no side pot so all that was acheived by the bet was to let the all in guy survive. The better didn't win anything in this case.

Its fairly normal for a bet in this situation to push out the other players, so betting to create a sidepot really has no merit at all.

Its a lesson we should all learn, so take this one aboard ;]

Sometimes its also worth just checking through and trying to knock them out....

I hate when people do that also. If you have a good hand, such as high pair or 2 pair then I would bet, otherwise lay off. There is little point to bluffing. Bluffing might eliminate competition against the all-in but it makes you look like a moron when you lose and have nothing. Plus, people will start aiming for you. This could be considered a good thing but one person on tilt is different then the whole table specifically aiming to take you down.

I dont like the idea of bluffing against an all in. 1st you already know he not going anyehere and 2nd he will uaually have some sort of real hand to make the move. I only bluff when in ealy position and can make others think I may have the nuts. Usually after the folp or 4th street and the real real quick with the bet. I dont do it often either.

Bluffing against an all in is just stupid. Why have someone fold that could potentially take a person out of the tourny and make you finish higher in the money?

i agree with you snoopy..

very true cause half the time the percentage is 80 16 and they want to hit that 16 percent its crazy. i perfer to slow play my hands

That's not as bad as when you call an all-in bluff with a legitimate hand (top pair, two pair, trips, etc.), and the person gets two runners to beat you.

Happened to me last night. I was on the button with J 3 and checked. The flop came J 3 4. I immediatly bet the flop pretty hard, hoping someone had a jack with a good kicker to call. Someone sets me all-in, and I call. The person shows Q 7. And of course, the turn and river were both 7s.

thats just poker ;]

who would call with 7 2 off?apart from the idiot who knocked me out at pokerroom.pocket As went all in and he got trip 2s.at the time we were evenly matched in chips and it still gives me nightmares!

This really bothers me when its late in a tourney and someone does this. I really just think that they don't understand the importance of checking down to get rid of the all-in when you are close to the money. They have nothing to gain by bluffing.

I really love the people who bluff all-in before the flip, when all that is in the pot is in the blinds. Especially when they have a MISERABLE hand. Risking 3000 in chips to pick up a pot of 100 is not quit worth the investment.

it happens alot im used to it now but i used to get mad when someone would beat me like that it happened to me today and will probibly happen to me tomorrow

yea people do that when i am playing, the only time i appreciate it is when i am the one who is all in , otherwise it is stupid, but it does help you get a read on that player for later in the tourney

That guy obviously doesn't know what he's doing. How can you bluff somebody that's already all in especially out of position like that. He tripled up the guy when he was beat.

Earlier today in a tourney I was the fortunate recipient of this very thing. I was low stack and went all-in with pocket 4's. 3 players called me. I didn't catch the set on the flop and 1 player raised, 1 folded, and the other reraised. The player who reraised was bluffing and scared the other guy off who said he would've won with a pair of 10's. I survived with my pair of 4's and finished 4th in the tourney.

those ppl that bet wildon 2-7 off watch way too much TV...was took out the otherday twice once i go all in with KK another calls me and then the 3rd (27 off) why in the right mind would someone go all in with 27 off after 2 ppl have already made huge bets preflop? what comes on flop K 2 8 (gives me trips) then on turn and river you guessed it 77 he gets FH and takes 2 of us out. not once but in 2 straight tournies at same time...grrrrrr

After playing many tourneys with sometimes as many as 6,000 to 10,000 players, I have found that there is a new bred of player now known as the Lottery player. Im sure this is the same player you are talking about that wants to feel the excitement of the all in...and win... Usually, this type of player burns out within the first hour of play. . the only solution i've been able to come up with is stay out of his way. He is wild and will go all in with nothing...and win .. and then will go all in with Something and win....but the lottery player...does burn out because he dosen't have a clue how to play a real hand of cards...All you can really do is hold your ground and practice patience.

i think that bluffing while someone is all in is dumb..i mean yea sure it could potentially make u more chips..but it could also make you finish lower in the money..im sure the person that finished 1 place outta the money isnt to happy with the 72 guy

great points Ridley. I play in an a ring game and one player brought another who does exactly that!! First time, I got burned, second time I just waited until he burned out!!

A lot of players play in freerolls because they are boring and they like to do that. It is not worth the trouble to analyze it, they do not have desire to play the best poker they can.

u can bluff in this situation but u can bluff with all in - u can bluff depend of the pot if its worth the shame to winning - calc if u lose what u gona stay n what u gona get if wins - i doesnt do it but if someone raises with 4 ppl and i have any one of the others hans (T9 - AK - 33) definitve im gona fold, n i think most of u do the same so if u analize the play its ok depend of ur position

Hi all,
Sorry haven't been around for a couple of days, been on a bit of a roll
Anyway I have to agree with Ridley's comment about there being a "new breed of player" I'm calling them "I don't really have a clue" player, lol.
I'm hearing a lot about people being taken out with ridiculous calls and i'm seeing it a lot myself recently, even in the SNG's and i'm talking $30 and even $50 SNG's, there must also be a new breed of teachers/strategies out there explaining to people they can call on absolutely anything and win.
I was playing a $30 SNG just this morning and one player went all-in pre-flop on the very first hand, he was called which surprised me even more, he done this on a 35 offsuit, the guy who called had KK and won. These people must have money to burn.
I have seen 72 off many times recently either all-in pre-flop or very large bets, I can only assume that they are hoping everyone will fold and they will steal a blind, what is the point in that?
Having said that I have had a very lucky win myself with 72 off, I would never call using these two cards, ever, not even if they were suited. But I was dealt 72 off and it was my BB, about 3 people called the BB and the flop came out 772, I still wouldn't ever call on these cards.
Another thing about these really bad players, there are some who value the Ace as a god I think, i've been called all the way to the river just because the guy is holding an Ace, he had nothing, there was no ace on the board so why did he call even though my flush was staring him in the face? I've no explanation but i'm certainly taking advantage of these idiots when I can and they are obliging me
As far as the bluffing question goes? I wouldn't and I think that particular guy you spoke of in the first post was an idiot and I'm being polite when I say that.
I bluff maybe once during the course of a SNG, previous to me using a bluff I make sure that everyone sees my cards on all my very good hands, this way it's easier to get away with one big bluff late on in the game, it's helped me on several occassions. I say late in the game as this has given the other players time to get to know my play and i'm seen as not being a bluffer, if I bet big they know I have something so I can get away with one bluff and it can really help you out sometimes.
Good luck

Tony ( The Webmaster )

yea does not really make sense

unless your playing on a team.

donvic

I like that philosophy of showing all your hands to save up for a big bluff later. That makes a lot of sense.

Oh yeah, and I gotta agree w/ everyone on the bluffer against an all in pot. I usually won't even bet top pair to make sure the guy gets beat when somebody is all in. I say keep as many people against him as you can.

I think that everybody should check after somebody goes all in unless you have a hand that you think will beat the all in guy then you can bet and try to win a side pot.

I know exactly how you feel about that. I just pisses me off when people do that. Unless you know you have the all in beat just check it down. Its a common curistory in cards to try to knock another person out and move up in the standings.

i think it is an overall bad move to be in a hand with 7-2 offsuit if he of had to call more than the blinds

Not only is bluffing an all-in stupid, so are most of the calls. Too often somebody calls a short-stack all in in hopes of winning a race with average cards. Too me that's no different than bluffing on the turn.

Bluffing on anothers all in? Ofcourse, very stupid. But in a situation where you have hit top pair on flop, do you think it is better to slow play your top pair, possibly Queens? or is it better to bet them out, so that they don't hit one of their aces, or kings? Maybe they even hit a jack...

This happens to me and I'd like to hear what everyone else does in these situations?

^^^This is ofcourse when 'PLAYER 1' has already gone all-in pre flop.

This startegy has to be the worst possible!! I mean the one thing you want when someone's all in is to take him out. You then want the best chances to do it. Even if all of his chips go into someone else's stack, it doesn't matter, the guy's gone and you don't have to bother about him anymore. I actually hate when people do that and then they lose the hand not only allowing the guy to survive but also allowing him to AT LEAST double up on his stack...

7 2 (Also known as "The Hammer") is becoming such a popular hand to play....i guess ppl think if they play and lose with it then ..oh well, I had the worst hand and lost with it, who cares. But if they pull out a win, for them its a HUGE boost in moral, confindence, lucky bonus happy points? not quite sure what they think they gain