| This is a discussion on Blind Stealing? within the online poker forums, in the Cash Games section; Good evening fellow cardschatters, I am looking for some opinions on blind stealing in cash games...is it worth it? Often, I see players on the ... |
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#1 | ||||
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| Blind Stealing? Good evening fellow cardschatters, I am looking for some opinions on blind stealing in cash games...is it worth it? Often, I see players on the button or cutoff aggressively playing hands that they obviously should not be...my only assumption is that they are trying to steal the blinds. Maybe they are just aggressive players? To me, it's not worth it. Why play bad hands, even if you are on the button? I can understand that if the table is fairly tight, you might want to loosen up your starting hand requirements...but, 83o? 94o? That seems a bit too loose. Opinions? Any possible tells from this behavior, other than the obvious "fish" or "donk?" |
| Play Texas Hold'em Online Poker | Blind Stealing? | |
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#2 | ||||
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| Others will explain this better than me, but in super summary format: 1) You'll win 1.5bb when you successfully steal, which is about 70% of the time. Even if you lose every unsuccessful steal (some1 calls/ 3 bets); your EV is 0.7*1.5 - 0.3*3 = 0.15bb. That's 7.5 ptBB/100 at the worst case! 2) When you're not successful, you're in position post-flop, which is huge. Even with rubbish hands, you can often win the hand with a c-bet; and sometimes you flop an extremely well-disguised monster. |
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#3 | ||||
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| And you don't need to steal with ATC, but if you widen your range to Ax, Kxs, QT, K8+, 22+, any connectors and suited one-gappers, that's 43% of your range --a good stealing percentage-- and you have hands that can usually play ok postflop in position. |
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| I see your points loop, but I believe other things must be taken into consideration, too...for example, if you have maniacs sitting to your left that will call down anything, I think it is a waste of a raise, especially if you miss, which will be more often than not. Thank you, though, for showing me the math. Never looked at it in that light, before... |
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I have also used what is called a set-up play from this position or the C/O ... This is strategic move, where ill re-raise a previous raiser, with bad cards like 7/8 offsuit, and then take the hand to a showdown, so that the table thinks im an idiot. (this really only works when you first sit down and if you havent played against them before), as they say there is a time and a place for everything. |
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It would be interesting to explore the PT/HEM stats filtered for success/resteal/call of 2.5BB steal attempts from someone that does it. |
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Edit:If you only raise 3.5 for vaule only and there to stupid to pick up on it |
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I tracked a couple hundred hands (Rush Poker NLHE $0.05/$0.10, open-raise 2.5BB) from both positions and stealing from CO was more successful. |
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#26 | ||||
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Basically, whenever you are the original raiser, you will win the hand more often than not if you have a decent game. So why not make the pot a little bigger, and win slightly more money? It will add up over the long run. Joebob, are you suggesting I raise 3.5x for value, and 2.5/3x for blind stealing? |
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#28 | ||||
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| re: Blind Stealing? poker Quote:
No doubt an infinite sample would be better, but... 200+ hands I got to open-raise from both button and cut-off. What's the minimum sample size would you consider to be statically significant? |
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Filter your position stats for every hand you have played.Which one has made the most profit?How many hands was that? |
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#33 | ||||
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| A snippet from the 2+2 forum COTW. "Bet sizing So... here is something which for me is a big factor in blind stealing. When you steal a lot, it's a good idea to make your bet sizing a bit smaller. It gives you a better price on your steals. Split's probably done this already in his bet sizing post, but let's quickly run through the math behind this: Assuming our hand has zero postflop value (which it doesn't, of course): - If we open to 4BB, we risk 4 to win 1.5, so we need our steal to work 73% of the time. - If we open to 3.5BB, we risk 3.5 to win 1.5, so we need our steal to work 70% of the time. - If we open to 3BB, we risk 3 to win 1.5, so we need our steal to work 67% of the time. - If we open to 2.5BB, we risk 2.5 to win 1.5, so we need our steal to work 63% of the time. - If we open to 2BB, we risk 2 to win 1.5, so we need our steal to work 57% of the time." SOURCE: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...ealing-419666/ |
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