Big slick, Big headache `

So im making the transition from online play and small home games with my friends to real casino play.... and im generally more of a sit-n-go or MTT player online, and the home games i play are all sit-n-go type winner takes all.... So im more used to playing with a large ammount of chips... and bet ammounts have been where i think is where i am still quiet uncomfortable with in live cash games..

K, so the set up.... $40 buy in on your first buy, can rebuy anywhere from $20-$60 on your next rebuy, then back to $40, then 20-60... you get my drift.... it's not a sit n go or a tourny... its a cash game... with a set buy in..

$1 / $2 NL table @ the Bicycle Casino here in the los angeles area...

k, now before i go into the the main hand im posting about (i got raped several times, always when i was holding my best hands.... and the largest pots i won were with crap hands while i was on the blinds with no pre- raises). The hand RIGHT before this hand... and i mean EXACTLY before this one... the calling machine on the table..... an old oriental male, who looked very very poor, very dirty, very cheap, didn't speak at all..... and every other hand, he would try to short-change by throwing in less than the bets... Now i understand doing it a couple of times is an accidant.. but the dealer had to repeatedly mention to him to put in 2 more chips... or 1 more chip.... or 3 more chips.... to a point where the floorman said he would have to ask him to leave if it continued.... but anywho.. back ot the hand..
the big-stack on the table.. a semi-loose aggressive player who played a lot of hands, made moves, but wasn't afraid to throw it away if he was played back at and wasn't holding anything great....... was getting irritated with this calling machine... the last 4 hands they were going at it hard, just them two..
bet.
call
bet..
call
bet...
call....

mr. call machine is directly to the left of mr. big-stack...

mr. stack puts out a $15 bet to make it $17 total to go... mr. call does what he does best. everyone quickly gets out the way..

flop comes Ac-Qc-5d

stack bets $40.

mr. calling machine calls. holding 5c-8c. Bottom pair with a flush draw...
needless to any further, he hits his flush, and we're all shocked he'd call $40 with bottom pair and a draw....
and what was mr. stack holding? A-Q. yeah... so now you have a feel for mr. call.


well then, on the next hand, now involving me. I was dealt A-Ko and have about $65-$68... mr. stack is the button. mr call is the SB, UTG limps in, i make it $10 to go. everyone folds, for i had been mucking almost everything i got except the free-looks as the BB or the half price look as the SB if it was never raised.... i never limped in, and the hands i did get involved in where i bet, i had only shown AK suited, AJ suited, QQ, and a KQ. so it was fairly good to assume i had a good hand to bet such early.

Now i didn't bet big, because i didn't like having to act 2nd.... i had a maniac 2 seats to my left, an old senior citizen with too much money for his own good 2 seats from the maniac, mr. big-stack, and mr call all waiting to pull some stupid wierd move out of their ass...

but it was folded by everyone, except the call machine... who calls..
i feel sick in my stomach when i see the flop.

A-2-4 rainbow. He checks it over to me.

i don't doubt in my mind he has a 3 or a 5 in his hand.... and i know he's gonna chase it.... i throw my chips in there and declare my all in. If he's gonna chase, im gonna make sure he pays me off for it.

well.. he thinks for 20-30 seconds before calling and showing me 2-4.

yeah.... was i sopposed to bet more pre?

was i sopposed to check back at him? and fold if he bet opn the turn? wtf was i sopposed to do?

I honestly cant see any fault in your play just bad circumstances and a fool that would play a credit card if he had it. I think a bigger pre flop raise might have worked but he probably still would have called since he was riding a little streak.

What else can you do against that kind of play except wait the fool out and take his money when you get a mortal lock cause you know he`s gonna call everything.Don`t get down on your play I think you did right.

I think his style flustered you badly. The trick with them is to play really tight. I think your all-in there would be called loose. You know he will call with any two cards, right? AK is good but you only hit top pair. A2, A4, AA, 22, 44 and of course 24 all have you beat. From your post he really could have any of these. Why not just play it out, bet normally. Bet out $10 there, another $10 on the turn and another $10 after the river. You would make it a nice size pot but made him pay to chase his hand.

Calling stations are annoying but you fell for the trap that they lay for the table. You got impatient and just threw your money in the middle with a good but not great hand when he really hit the flop. He had you drawing to 3 cards. You really need to be holding the nuts or a monster to try and get him to bite on bet like that. You only had the 7th best hand in that situation.

You want to milk calling, not slaughter them in one hand. The only way he was going to call a double the pot size bet is if he had you beat, and he did. Bet when you think you have it and just check if in doubt. You can control the amount of betting since they will not reraise to often. You take calling stations out slowly in a methodical fashion because you never know when the flop is friendly to them.

I think your preflop raise was fine, with calling stations you never know what they have and will call with anything to a bet if they have a "feeling" about that hand.

Great advice Titan, as always.

I played a .05/.10 table last weekend and at the table was a person who only called as well and won quite a few hands. Later on he flopped a full house TWICE in about 10 minutes. Both times no one else at the table hit their cards and everyone checked all the way around, as did he. The first time all he collected was the blinds because he wouldn't bet. The second time he only bet $.10 after the river and most of us folded remembering how he played the last FH.

I made a note on this guy for each time he did it. Also, any time he stayed in, unless I had the nuts, I just folded.

I have been there myself...and it hurts it questions your own game play and somewhat breaks down your mind some what. But another game comes around with the right flops and the monster hand without a calling station on a luck streak.....On a positive note I love your terminology in your story gave me a few laughs

my terminology eh? =] and what might you be referring to? im more than curious .

anywho, u gotta understand, that this day, everytime i held a good hand, AK suited, AJ suited, etc. i would lose. when i held rags like J-2o and A-2o i would win huge pots.... and although 2-4 was a combination, i couldn't get myself to believe he would call with a 2-4o.... i mean.... he was bad, but i didnt think he was THAT chaotic..... ya know? i was thinking more like 5-j or 3-6... anyways.. the turn and river brought more connecting low-cards... i think the turn was a 7,and the river was a 6 or something..... so yeah... i guess that prolly woulda had me fold and save some chips... but then again... if i never saw what he was holding, i'de blame myself for letting him draw for cheap and suck me out of a pot.. ya know?

The thing is, with the all-in bet, the only call you are going to get is the one that already has you dead. Has he really called double and triple the pot size bets with nothing before this hand?

There is a difference between taking the odds out of a hand and overcomitting to your hand. A pot size bet takes the odds of most hands to keep playing. You took the skill out of the hand by going all-in. You had a read on the player and risked everything on your read. You guessed wrong this time.

Have you faced many calling stations before? They take getting use to, especially when they are really hot and catching all the crap they are playing. I have lost money to them also and watch them give it away in the next hand to someone else at the table. I look at them as people who help pad the bankroll, not creating one by going all-in against them.

In casino ring games you will find lots of these style players and there are usually more than one at a table. They are there for the excitement and entertainment value and not there to play serious cards. You have to play $5/$10 or higher before any people will take it as real poker. You get Daddy Warbucks who makes 70k a year and wants to play poker but doesn't know how. What is a couple hundred lost in 2-3 hours playing 2/4 3/6 limit holdem if he had fun and won some hands.

Played one of this type last night. On a 5/10 cent N/L table and happilyl collected all of his money with AA when hit the set. Played VERY tight only called with AA and KK cost me 7 dollars to collect 58 so thats an ok investment for a low stakes player. Good Advice .... you know the weakness but watch out for anything that can BITE you.

Loose maniacs will call with anything, but if you get annoyed, frustrated etc - you must play tight and only call with the very best of hands.

Or take a break etc.

Remember AK, AJ are not supreme hands when you miss the flop - sure a big pre-flop raise may put most players off, but if 'Mr Call' plays anything would that really stop him calling for that bit more?.

Just close up and get evil on him when that huge hand lands in the hole and especially when the flop hits.

Knowing he'll call most times - slow play and let him pay you for you frustration.


IanT.

I understand what you're saying completely, and they are very good points.. but i was in another mind-state at the time... he called a $40 bet holding bottom pair and a flush draw in the hand RIGHT before this one.... and he was calling huge bets on draws in several other hands...

i wanted to just take the pot right there, i didn't want him to call. all i was fearing at that very moment was him holding a 3 or a 5 and fishing for the gut-shot and hitting it.... i got myself to refuse to believe that even HE could be holding 2-4 off and call preflop.....