Beyond The Top Ten Starting Hands

As many of you know, I read a lot of poker related articles and mention them on this forum. I figure I'll try writing my own article. I was inspired by the Top Ten Trouble Starting Hands thread I posted a few days ago. Tell me what you think:

I like but if I may just add something about the K,Q.. yes you are afraid someone has a higher kicker. Yet that kicker has to be an Ace.. so you are either dealing with the A,K or A,Q. The norm for those cards is a pre-flop raise cause most know limping in with A,K or A,Q with others is almost a sin.

K,Q reminds me of A,Q... nice starting hand but either hurts you or helps you.

Very nice article. I agree completely, even though I think your being a little hard on KQ. If you made 9-K straight on turn or river, and are beaten by an ace, chances are you held top pair or top 2 pair, and the other guy was drawing expensively to an inside straight. Not a common situation and worth being sucked out on once in a while.

My favourite overrated starting hand is not here, though. JQ is grossly overrated IMO. It has all the same problems you mention about KQ, except so much worse. There are a lot of hands that dominate it, and they aren't easily spottet by a big preflop raise. On top of that, drawing it to a straight will often be too expensive with those high cards on the board.

Talk about being pessimistic. That person must be tight as a rock. I'll play kq all day long as long as people keep playing k2. They even raise with k7.

I dunno, I think you need to play KQ and those cards, but I agree they should be on the "caution" list. If you're dealt KQ and you see 3 re-raises, I'm not sure if I want a part of that. Even catching the Q or K pair I'll be nervous. And if you don't catch your pair or flush draw or straight draw or whatever, I agree with t1riel that you need to dispense of hands like this immediately. At best they are a limp-in/call/fold on the flop, at worst they are a second-best hand and your demise.

I think "don't ever play these" is too strong, but I wouldn't purposely throw all my money into the pot on them either.

Beriac, did you even read the last paragraph? I never said "don't ever play these."

I have a diffrent opinion on K Q hand. Play for a raise preflop in late position. If you get an A on the flop put out a bet that look like you are trying to get called. People will put you on the A If they call you might get to draw for the st8 for cheep because they fear your kicker (assuming the A) or you may take the pot without a call. Even an A with a low kicker has to worry, You did raise pre flop.

T1riel, interesting stuff, keep it coming.

"Low suited connectors (2,3 3,4 4,5)

Why they aren't great: I think some players love these because they may catch a straight flush with them. Well, how often do you see ANY straight flush? Exactly. Sure, you could catch a straight with them but you run into the same problem as mentioned in A,2. Sure, you could catch the flush but someone could very easily catch a higher flush.

How to Play Them: Don't."

Oh how Mr. Brunson would disagree.....

I wasn't suggesting that you had. My post in general and my specific comment (I think "don't ever play these" is too strong, but I wouldn't purposely throw all my money into the pot on them either.) was directed at the poster immediately above me.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

well very interesting
i have to go back on it (due to my poor english)
anyway thanks to share

Good article keep them coming

Wow, this thread brings back memories.

I wished everyone would read this post maybe the fish wouldnt be so fishy.

What about the Ax you forgot those hands and people just chase them down to river with bad kixcker and usually get the horrible kicker on the river to kill the peron with TPTK lol

DB is a master @ not paying players off when he makes a 2nd best hand. We don't all have those skills yet. The best spot to avoid dicey situations is before the flop. I agree with t1riel's original take on these hands. Play em for the cost of the blinds when possible, but do not call raises with them. Keep them easy to lay down on the flop.

I have actually never heard of the top 10 strategy. I have heard of the top 15. All PP's, AK, and AQ. Phil Hellmuth Jr. details a strategy like this is his book.

This is a great place to start because you get a great risk/reward ratio with these hands. As you get more comfortable, you will add Axs, sometimes Kxs, and medium suited connectors to your game.

While learning the nuances of the game, limiting your range is essential. The idea is to maximize your strong points and minimize your weak points until you can identify and address them.

In live games, many players lose consistantly because they fail to limit thier play. They apply position play and pot odds to thier decision making, which is good, but not enough until they have developed thier reading skills more.

Limiting your play helps you avoid situations that you are not yet prepared to handle. It also keeps you at the table much longer, allowing you to hone your skills much more (per buy in).

The nature of cash games dictates that a player can pick his battles. Failing to do so will keep you from both winning and improving your play. Get to the point where you can sit @ the casino all day with little risk, and your game will take off from there.

Great post!