Bet sizing help!

Can someone provide me with bet sizing help? I've always been told to raise 4x the big-blind which is 8 cents in cash games. My own experiments found that a 17 cent raise was more effective 12-17 cent raise in full ring games more effective at .01/.02 but in 6 player games about 8 cent is all that is needed.

If we think about in stack size terms on flopping a set lets say 6%-7% on the flop that means. Let's assume if he flops his set he will stack us most of the time so we should raise how much?

Lets think our stack lets say is 300 cent. We need to raise at least 8% of our stack to give ourselves an edge or 24 cent?

Seems like a large raise! If we say keep it even then 21 cent raise

What do you think? Also can someone tell me theory or idea behind min betting on every street? I've seen more people do this at .02/.05 then .01/.02 and seems to work better there.

Ok...

First off you're talking about 8 cents, not 80 bucks. That's a big difference, imo. At this level you're going to have to forget about the standard 3bet/4bet and go bigger when the situations calls for it. People love to chase about anything at micro because the cost is so low.

C-betting: Wat too many guys c-bet every single hand in micro. It doesn't take a lot of brain power to know what they are doing and they've totaly missed. You've just got to out play them either by with good cards or by representing great cards with your play. Keep in mind that others will be paying close attention to players that bluff/c-bet too often and they bid their time waiting for a chance to stack that player ( I do, lol). If you get caught then change gears but don't be predictable about it.

As far as saying can tag be proffitable in micro, I disagree completely. Playing tag is very proffitable against lag players, esp. at micro. Pick your battles and let them pay you off.

AB is correct. At such very low limits, some of the players seem to take the view that it`s barely real money and they play very wild.

In general, use 3-5x the BB as your baseline, but watch the table and take your lead from the others. When you raise, you are generally looking to reduce the field to one opponent. Therefore, the correct raise is whatever it takes (on average) to accomplish that at your table on that particular day.

Sometimes 3x BB is enough. On another day, at another table, 6 or 8 may be needed.

When you first join a table, there is much to be said for taking a few minutes during which you fold everything other than AA, KK, QQ. During that time, your mission is to watch the opponents, not your own cards. You are looking to learn who is tight, who is loose, who is aggressive and what size of raise is enough to persuade most of them to fold.

What is this raise 24cents all about?

If you have a $3 stack and you raise 24c you can protect ur hand against set miners if you push on every flop? wouldn't u win about $1.68 when they miss and lose $3 when they hit and u stack. so you'd lose -$1.32 right#??? correct me if i'm wrong.

I just raise between 3-5x BB and add 1bb for every limper. That is my line and i go by the book.

They are only going to flop a set about 7-8% of the time. Not sure the exact odds they have 2 outs * 3 on the flop for 6% on the flop.

So to set mine they must be able to call the original raise enough times to bust you to make it profitable.

So lets look at in 100x they will flop a set about 6x of those times. Thus it will cost them 100*original raise and they will win 6*your stack

Thus if you make your original raise 6% of your stack size then given 100 units

You would need to raise 6 units. At 6 units per raise a set miner will spend 600 units to earn 600 units or break even. Thus by charging just 1 or 2 unit more you make it impossible to set mine your stack profitably even if they bust you ever time.

Now lets look at what if your stack is 300 units then you will need to raise 18 cents which is quite a large raise. Perhaps this is why I get the 17 cent raise is the sweet spot. Thus this is 4.5x the BB -- with a very large stack then you need to raise more whereas with a smaller stack you can raise less in absolute terms.

The chances of flopping a set are actually between 1:7 and 1:8, if I'm not mistaken. So, roughly 1 out of every 8 flops seen with a pocket pair will net you a set.

Is that 1-8 to 1-7 ON the flop or including the turn and river? I calculated by taking 2 outs * 3 = 6%. 2 outs * 5 = 10% I was just calculating ON the flop and not per flop

That's not how you calculate the probability of getting 3-of-a-kind, though. Typically what you do is multiply the probability that none of the first three cards is one of the two you need, and then deduct that from 1.

There are 50 cards in the deck that aren't in your hand. 48 of them will NOT give you a set on the first card. After that has been dealt, there are 49 cards left of which 47 will not give you a set. The probability flopping a set is:

1 - (48/50) * (47/49) * (46/48) = 0,117551 = 11.8%.

The probability of hitting a set if you see all five community cards is

1- (48/50) * (47/49) * (46/48) * (45/47) * (44/46) = 0.191837 = ~19%.

On the topic of bet sizing, I wrote a few blog posts about it awhile back:

Sizing Your Bets in No-limit, Part I: Preflop and the Cumulative Effect » Online Poker Blog
Sizing Your Bets in No-limit, Part Ib: An Addendum » Online Poker Blog
Bet-sizing, Part IIa: Making Decisions Easy » Online Poker Blog
Bet-sizing, Part IIb: Making Decisions Easy » Online Poker Blog
Bet-sizing, Part IIc: Making Decisions Easy » Online Poker Blog
Bet-sizing, Part III: Bluffing » Online Poker Blog

/FP