Being Aggressive and Appropriate C-Betting

#1 13th March 2009, 6:10 AM

Hi everyone,

Typically online I play tight/aggressive, trying to make the most money on my good hands and losing as little as possible on bad hands. It generally works well, but when I get short-stacked early and the cards are cold it's hard to catch back up.

So I've tried to be more loose, especially on the button and at cut-off. What happens most of the time is I'll get check-raised after c-betting (3 or 4 times the min. bet) or lose to some similar play, and at other times I'll just steal the blinds and make no real profit.

So what do I do? When's the best time to be more aggressive and try to take down good pots, especially in position?

#2 13th March 2009, 6:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjatud2012

Hi everyone,

Typically online I play tight/aggressive, trying to make the most money on my good hands and losing as little as possible on bad hands. It generally works well, but when I get short-stacked early and the cards are cold it's hard to catch back up.

What type of game are you playing? Hold Em? 6 Max? FR? Cash? SnGs?

If you are playing cash, how much do you typically sit down with?

Short stack play can be effective, but in general if you are sitting down with a full Buy In, losing half of it or more and then not rebuying back to full that's not a good thing. If you aren't playing cash this doesn't apply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjatud2012

So I've tried to be more loose, especially on the button and at cut-off. What happens most of the time is I'll get check-raised after c-betting (3 or 4 times the min. bet) or lose to some similar play, and at other times I'll just steal the blinds and make no real profit.

Do you use any type of poker tracking software? Some players are great to blind steal against and others aren't. People who are constantly calling you and 3 betting you aren't good to steal against often. You want to mainly raise good hands vs them and then use position against them.

Tight players are great to steal against since they put up no fight most of the time.

Similarly, some boards are terrible to cbet on while others are good. You will sometimes get c/r when you cbet nothing but that doesn't mean it isn't still a profitable play. I think 70-75% is a pretty normal cbet % for alot of people, although the person in the blinds will affect how often you should be cbetting them as well as some other factors.

And don't underestimate the profit from blind stealing. It adds up, and done correctly adds a decent amount to your win rate. Of course, the more tables you play the more of an effect you will see from this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjatud2012

So what do I do? When's the best time to be more aggressive and try to take down good pots, especially in position?

You are at least aware you need to be more aggressive in position and that's good.

Answer some of the above questions and we can go from there.

#3 13th March 2009, 7:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tygran

What type of game are you playing? Hold Em? 6 Max? FR? Cash? SnGs?

If you are playing cash, how much do you typically sit down with?

Short stack play can be effective, but in general if you are sitting down with a full Buy In, losing half of it or more and then not rebuying back to full that's not a good thing. If you aren't playing cash this doesn't apply.

Do you use any type of poker tracking software? Some players are great to blind steal against and others aren't. People who are constantly calling you and 3 betting you aren't good to steal against often. You want to mainly raise good hands vs them and then use position against them.

Tight players are great to steal against since they put up no fight most of the time.

Similarly, some boards are terrible to cbet on while others are good. You will sometimes get c/r when you cbet nothing but that doesn't mean it isn't still a profitable play. I think 70-75% is a pretty normal cbet % for alot of people, although the person in the blinds will affect how often you should be cbetting them as well as some other factors.

And don't underestimate the profit from blind stealing. It adds up, and done correctly adds a decent amount to your win rate. Of course, the more tables you play the more of an effect you will see from this.

You are at least aware you need to be more aggressive in position and that's good.

Answer some of the above questions and we can go from there.

Thanks for the tips! I play NLHE Sng's mostly, very small stakes. I think part of my problem is like you said, I need to pick better flops to c-bet on, whether it likely hit the opponent or not, plus the type of player I'm betting at. I think I need to consider too the size of chip stacks more, i.e. harder to bluff a big stack, and more risky when I have a short stack.

#4 13th March 2009, 7:16 AM

A better question that most that come from new members.

And Tygran's given a pretty good answer. It sounds like you're talking tournament rather than cash. If you get a chance, look at some of Irexes' videos on MTTs or the old ones that Dorkas Malorkus did of some sit and goes.

Don't think of it as being loose, although it is loose when you have position, think of it in terms of opening your range when you are in late position. The difference being that otherwise there's a tendency to open up too much from everywhere.

And I get the feeling that you're playing pretty low stakes tournaments, which means that it is more difficult to steal because the players will call raises preflop with almost anything. That makes it tougher in that particular respect but there's other exploitable aspects of that kind of play like valuebetting.

And like Tygran says, reads are important at any level. Don't try stealing blinds when the blinds play 50% of their hands. And shove, don't raise, when you get down below 10 big blinds.

#5 13th March 2009, 7:44 AM

I don't use poker software but I have caught on to people check raising me only because it has it worked in the past. Either try a small re raise with nothing or check next time you air ball the flop.

I had some dude do this to me and I folded next hand he did it again and I called him down with A-10 and won a huge pot against his J-10. board was 10-9-5-3-2 rainbow. Maybe wait for better opportunities to use your opponents supposed read on you,

#6 14th March 2009, 7:47 AM

The idea should be to send misinformation to other players, sometimes I C-bet with nothing, sometimes I check...It's when you get too predictable that problems are sure to come up...When people feel they know your tendencies down cold and you aren't experienced enough to realize it, it's almost always going to get ugly for you.

#7 14th March 2009, 5:47 PM

It sounds to me like you're C-bets are too small, 3-4BB shuld be the initial pre flop steal. Then if it gets checked to you bet something like like 3/4 pot on the flop. Also dont make the same play every time tou are on the button, eventually opponents will play back at you.

#8 14th March 2009, 7:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickmond

The idea should be to send misinformation to other players, sometimes I C-bet with nothing, sometimes I check...It's when you get too predictable that problems are sure to come up...When people feel they know your tendencies down cold and you aren't experienced enough to realize it, it's almost always going to get ugly for you.

I actually tried some of this in two MTTs yesterday, not c-betting every time I'm on the button, it really helped a lot. Thanks for the help!

#9 17th March 2009, 3:36 AM

I personally feel that C-betting is over done and most of the more experienced players are not affected by it. Therefore, c-betting has lost some of its value.

#10 17th March 2009, 3:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUKII

I personally feel that C-betting is over done and most of the more experienced players are not affected by it. Therefore, c-betting has lost some of its value.

I'm not usually playing with experienced players is the thing. At the same time, though, a lot of inexperienced players will call with what are usually losing hands, lol. So maybe it works both ways, which is why I'm losing.

#11 20th March 2009, 9:57 PM

The ideal situation would be to be on a tight table. If your on the button
then, if all is folded to you, you have a good chance of taking down the pot,
but be careful. If anyone calls you then its likely they have a monster
brewing up. You only bluff when you have a good feel on the table, when
you sincerly believe no one will call due to the way their bodylanguage
acts in such a position. Other than that theres not much you can do. You
read their plays, you read how they act, and hope you get a good enough
read in all to ultimately calculate the best play.

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