Avoiding a Set

#1 06-01-2007, 9:35 AM

In 2 recent freerolls I've played in, I've gone out early to a set. The first was a set of J's when I hit a pair of aces /w AK. The second I had 2 pair (A's & 3's), and I got hit by a set of 9's. While I should have known better with top pair, it's a lot more difficult for me to lay down two pair when faced with potsized bets in late position.

So, am I overplaying top 2 pair? My first instinct is to always be aggressive with it, especially if there's a flush or straight draw possible. Thus, I make bets that are larger than pot. However, it seems that I'll often get caught by trips. Any advice on how to avoid getting hit hard by a set?

#2 06-01-2007, 9:44 AM

In a freeroll, I get my money in every time with top 2 pair. That is unless I've somehow been playing at the same table as someone for the whole tourny, and I have a strong read on him that he's got me beat. People are just too insane in freerolls to let that hand go.

Try submitting some hand histories and you'll give us a better idea of what's goin on, and maybe we can help more. I'm jumping to conclusions a little, but if you're playing A3 in a tourney, you're bound to get into some trouble. If you got into a limped pot with it, just remember the saying: 'don't go broke in an unraised pot' ... that is unless you get your money in with the nuts, of course.

#3 08-01-2007, 3:32 AM

Here's a hand history from a recent tourney. I sucked out here. Didn't have a good read on the guy pushing at me.

Code:

nyone11 is at seat 0 with 9885.
     c9h13no3 is at seat 1 with 13470.
     LeisureLife is at seat 2 with 18470.
     LC_daCow is at seat 3 with 18130.
     pacman361 is at seat 4 with 27670.
     Hawkthrower is at seat 5 with 21615.
     thomascrwn114 is at seat 6 with 5450.
     slicksdaddy is at seat 7 with 17605.
     bobbiebet is at seat 8 with 19650.
     Beerfred is at seat 9 with 31625.
     The button is at seat 9.
     
     nyone11 posts ante (25).
     c9h13no3 posts ante (25).
     LeisureLife posts ante (25).
     LC_daCow posts ante (25).
     pacman361 posts ante (25).
     Hawkthrower posts ante (25).
     thomascrwn114 posts ante (25).
     slicksdaddy posts ante (25).
     bobbiebet posts ante (25).
     Beerfred posts ante (25).
     c9h13no3 posts the small blind of 150.
     LeisureLife posts the big blind of 300.

     nyone11:  -- --
     c9h13no3:  Ks 9d
     LeisureLife:  -- --
     LC_daCow:  -- --
     pacman361:  -- --
     Hawkthrower:  -- --
     thomascrwn114:  -- --
     slicksdaddy:  -- --
     bobbiebet:  -- --
     Beerfred:  -- --

Pre-flop:
 
          LC_daCow calls.   pacman361 folds.   Hawkthrower folds.
            thomascrwn114 folds.   slicksdaddy folds.   bobbiebet
          folds.   Beerfred calls.   nyone11 calls.   c9h13no3
          calls.   LeisureLife checks.   

Flop (board: 3c Kd 9c):
 
          c9h13no3 bets 2000.   LeisureLife folds.   LC_daCow
          raises to 7750.   Beerfred folds.   nyone11 folds.  
          c9h13no3 goes all-in for 13145.   LC_daCow calls.   

          Tournament all-in showdown -- players show:
 
               c9h13no3 shows Ks 9d.
               LC_daCow shows 3d 3s.
          

Turn (board: 3c Kd 9c 9s):
 
        (no action in this round)
          

River (board: 3c Kd 9c 9s 7d):
 
        (no action in this round)
          

          

Showdown:
 
     c9h13no3 has Ks 9d Kd 9c 9s: full house, nines full of kings.
     LC_daCow has 3d 3s 3c 9c 9s: full house, threes full of nines.

I put him on a hand like KX clubs or something. The 4x raise really should have tipped me off. But I've been in situations where people have slow played them & just smooth called as well

#4 08-01-2007, 3:44 AM

how can you put him on KxClubs specifically when hes one of 5 people that limped into the pot, and you being out of position overbet out the pot. The only thing I can put him on without a read is either 33 or 99 or the ace high club draw.

I think that if you are going to play this you need to raise and eliminate a few hands rather than be forced to bet out a 5-way pot with a weak king. Either fold PF (understandable) or raise to find out who is limping with trash. Flop play was pretty standard, although a little too much in the bet. a 1000-1500 bet gives you the same information without committing more of your stack and possibly causing you to call an all in reraise as a big dog.

#5 08-01-2007, 4:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joosebuck

how can you put him on KxClubs specifically when hes one of 5 people that limped into the pot, and you being out of position overbet out the pot. The only thing I can put him on without a read is either 33 or 99 or the ace high club draw.

Good point. After the monsterous re-raise, I agree that the set should have lept into my brain. But I always forget about those >_<.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joosebuck

I think that if you are going to play this you need to raise and eliminate a few hands rather than be forced to bet out a 5-way pot with a weak king. Either fold PF (understandable) or raise to find out who is limping with trash. Flop play was pretty standard, although a little too much in the bet. a 1000-1500 bet gives you the same information without committing more of your stack and possibly causing you to call an all in reraise as a big dog.

I suppose I could raise with K9, but in early stages of a freeroll, most people just call anyways. I agree that I did blatantly overbet the flop, but once again, in freerolls, people chase flushes like mad, so I try to ward them off. But I suppose if 1500 ain't gonna do it, 2000 prolly ain't gonna get 'em off it either.

Any advice for when they just smooth call? If I push again after the flop, and then get raised, I've already got my chips in, it'd be much harder to fold.

#6 08-01-2007, 4:50 AM

right but then you have more information. and you are calling 8k more when you only have 1k~ invested. top 2 isnt fun to lay down, but that's what separates pros from nobodies

#7 08-01-2007, 8:38 AM

For me, I have an easier time putting people on trips than I do on 2 Pair.

Lost a live home game tonight - was heads up out of 10. I had AK in the hole and Axx on the board. He limped into pot and then put a cont bet on the flop. I called and let a card come out. Another low card. He puts what I thought was just a cont bet and I go back w/ All-In. Figure Heads Up AA w/ K kicker is pretty good. I thought he was on Ax based on how he has played most of the game. Wrong - he had the xx as 2 pair. I lose.

Normally, I wouldn't have gone All-In, but he had about 3 or 4:1 chip advantage on my and I was only about 6-8X BB.

I have to think I'd probably play the same way if given hand again in that situation, but I just didn't put him on the 2 pair.

To me, that's harder to do than trips.

#8 08-01-2007, 8:55 AM

did you limp preflop?

#9 08-01-2007, 3:23 PM

I raised 3X the blinds. That's how it go to just me an him.

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