Anyone play heads up...especially heads up limit games?

#1 27-02-2006, 6:45 AM

Man, i just took a guy for ~52$ play .5/1$ limit heads up....not sure if it was luck, or if i was just superior at heads up. When he won pots, they were small, but he would always pay my hands off...

#2 27-02-2006, 8:06 AM

Limit heads up or even NL heads up, you will find a call/raise 80% of the time.
In NL heads up i am talking about a call/raise if no big raise from you already.
Limit heads up i would be surprised if i was not called EVERY hand.
Regardless of the end result or the hole cards in a limit heads up situation, there is no reason why you or your opponent shouldnt call pre-flop.
Think about it, whats it costing you or your opponent, just one more blind.
If you play well after the flop and like seeing flops, then you always want to see them.
Thats where you win, but your opponent might be at there best there also.
Thinking you are way above your opponent in a Limit heads up situation can be risky to your overall stack, think on.

zinzan1000 be lucky

#3 27-02-2006, 9:33 AM

I disagree with seeing virtually all flops in heads-up limit play - I don't think it's a winning play.

Playing heads-up limit is so volatile and so high variance, that I wouldn't recommend anyone do it unless you're looking specifically for the challenge of learning how to (which is definitely a good reason, however). But one bad beat and you will have a lot of small pots to win to make up for it.

Styro - and I mean no offense by this - but although there's a good chance you were the better player of the two of you, maybe even by far, I think you'd be wise to attribute a large part of your winnings to shortterm luck. I say this with the best of intentions; looking to a good run as indicative of how you "should" win can be very dangerous psychologically. Be careful, friend.

#4 27-02-2006, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F Paulsson

I disagree with seeing virtually all flops in heads-up limit play - I don't think it's a winning play.

Playing heads-up limit is so volatile and so high variance, that I wouldn't recommend anyone do it unless you're looking specifically for the challenge of learning how to (which is definitely a good reason, however). But one bad beat and you will have a lot of small pots to win to make up for it.

Styro - and I mean no offense by this - but although there's a good chance you were the better player of the two of you, maybe even by far, I think you'd be wise to attribute a large part of your winnings to shortterm luck. I say this with the best of intentions; looking to a good run as indicative of how you "should" win can be very dangerous psychologically. Be careful, friend.

Limit is the secret here, if its heads up at the end of a multi table tourny then you must call 80% of the time.
If you cant see why then you will be the player saying well done just after you come 2nd.

If its heads up 1 on 1 from the get go then of course that is a different ball game, my post was geared at advising styro to be more aware of the fundementals required when any 2 cards can help or hinder.

I also didnt quote anything regarding post flop, so your bad beat claims have no bearing on my post.
Limit Hold Em is a drawing game therefore its advisable that you put yourself in a position to draw.
Folding pre-flop will not allow you to do that, and will render you robotic and predictable, aside from the fact your opponent will take massive advantage of this situation.

I want to put myself in a position to win whilst playing this format and in limit heads up, for me, that means seeing a flop.

zinzan1000

#5 27-02-2006, 10:52 AM

i figured it was at least somewhat attributed to luck, but i also think i made the right decisions in laying down hands and calling when i had a read on him. So, who knows. I'm really just hoping ot get better at limit heads up.

#6 27-02-2006, 7:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinzan1000

Limit is the secret here, if its heads up at the end of a multi table tourny then you must call 80% of the time.
If you cant see why then you will be the player saying well done just after you come 2nd.

If its heads up 1 on 1 from the get go then of course that is a different ball game, my post was geared at advising styro to be more aware of the fundementals required when any 2 cards can help or hinder.

I also didnt quote anything regarding post flop, so your bad beat claims have no bearing on my post.
Limit Hold Em is a drawing game therefore its advisable that you put yourself in a position to draw.
Folding pre-flop will not allow you to do that, and will render you robotic and predictable, aside from the fact your opponent will take massive advantage of this situation.

I want to put myself in a position to win whilst playing this format and in limit heads up, for me, that means seeing a flop.

zinzan1000

That heads-up is a volatile form of poker was not posted as a response to your post; my point - which I had hoped was clear - was that a short-term win in a heads-up game says very little about ones skill at it.

Now, about the part that was aimed at your post - that seeing every flop was a winning strategy, I will gladly take that discussion further:

1. Let's say that you're playing someone who you know will raise every hand dealt, both from the small blind and from the big blind. Is calling (or 3-betting) every hand your best course of action?

2. If you're playing someone who will raise with 20% of his hands, do you always call a raise?

3. If you're playing someone who will raise with 2% of his hands, do you always call a raise?

4. Presuming that you don't advocate seeing every flop in a full game (and I doubt you would), at which point - as in how few players - do you think doing so gives you the best expectation, and how does your reasoning go? Does playing 3-handed warrant seeing every hand? Is it the fact that the blinds always give you better odds that warrant it? If so, do you see every flop from the blinds in a full game?

/FP

#7 27-02-2006, 7:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Styrofoam

i figured it was at least somewhat attributed to luck, but i also think i made the right decisions in laying down hands and calling when i had a read on him. So, who knows. I'm really just hoping ot get better at limit heads up.

And I wouldn't want to do anything to discourage that. Good job on the win!

If I may humbly give a recommendation, it would be to go back and review your handhistory for that session, each hand, and think your decisions through. You'll learn so much from spending that time.

How many hands are there? I might be interested in doing a review of the entire session if you'd let me.

/FP

#8 27-02-2006, 7:46 PM

I can request my hand histories from the past day, single out the time there were only two of us playing and e-mail it to you. HU is very fast paced, so there could have been upwards to 100 hands....if you don't mind doing it.

#9 28-02-2006, 8:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F Paulsson

That heads-up is a volatile form of poker was not posted as a response to your post; my point - which I had hoped was clear - was that a short-term win in a heads-up game says very little about ones skill at it.

Now, about the part that was aimed at your post - that seeing every flop was a winning strategy, I will gladly take that discussion further:

1. Let's say that you're playing someone who you know will raise every hand dealt, both from the small blind and from the big blind. Is calling (or 3-betting) every hand your best course of action?

2. If you're playing someone who will raise with 20% of his hands, do you always call a raise?

3. If you're playing someone who will raise with 2% of his hands, do you always call a raise?

4. Presuming that you don't advocate seeing every flop in a full game (and I doubt you would), at which point - as in how few players - do you think doing so gives you the best expectation, and how does your reasoning go? Does playing 3-handed warrant seeing every hand? Is it the fact that the blinds always give you better odds that warrant it? If so, do you see every flop from the blinds in a full game?

/FP

Good advice im sure, and greatful for it.
I was refering to a Limit Heads Up game from the original post.
Its where i make my best profits, and until otherwise i shall stick to my way on this one.
Though of course i will also take your advice on board.

zinzan1000 be lucky

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