Am i just being unlucky?

hey guys, I just started playing some freerolls for the past few days. I`ve read both Harrington on hold'em books.. Have a pretty good idea to what i`m suppose to be doing. I still make mistakes but i`m trying to improve my game... So i`ve been playing some freeroll tourneys and all my last 5 games i have lost to either trips on the river or flushes on the river going all in preflop with either AK or AA or pairs QQ, 8's . The last one which are the 8's I had to go all in since i had only 2000 chips with blinds 400/800. I have lost that hand to J7 , dude got 2 7s one on the flop one on the river. I `m starting to feel like I`m just SOOO unlucky i`m not going to do good in this game. Whats going on? Is everyone experiencing this type of beats once in a while? Why so many in the row? I would understand making huge mistakes but i play pretty tight sometimes aggressive if i see others being tight. I lose on the damn RIVERS.. whats up with that??? I wish i could show you the beats but PokerStars doesnt keep hand history for freeroll tourneys... SO am i just unlucky right now and things will get better in a long run cause this happens to everyone or Am i just unusually unlucky? Thanks guys!

It sounds like to me that you wrote this thread to get reassurance that you're just getting unlucky, i will not give you that luxury. with only a limited amount of tournaments played, it's very difficult to know where you're at. So i'm going to give you a better advice and tell you that things will be MORE difficult, so you have to learn, concentrate, and play better. once you learn about variance you'll understand why you will never have to post something like this. hope this helps and good luck to you

-m

Set the Pokerstars software to save your HH's to your hard drive. Then you won't have to ask Stars for them, freeroll or not.

Simply put, there are just too many more loose players in freerolls than in cash tourneys due to the "nothing to lose" factor.
If you play as well as you say you play then you should have no problem in the future in tourneys.
"Variance" does happen to everone but stick to your game and try not to fall into the bad play strategy that you see all the time in freerolls.
I would also like to welcome you to cardschat.

Keep playin for another year. Record your hands. If you're still losing and you haven't found any improvement, chances are there's a leak in your game. Otherwise, just keep putting your money in when you are a favorite and you will win in the long run.

^^ that. then come back and ask again, if you need to.

It happens to all of us. I had the same thing happn several times yesterday. Go in with AA etc and have players call with 6 4 unsuited and have them winning with either 2 pair or a set on the river. As Shinedown stated too many loose players and even though you have read books they haven't and don't care. As an example, I was at a table for an extended period or time and saw a loose player build a substantial stack by going all in on nearly every hand and then to turn around and loose it the same way. Unfortunately not to me. When they play that way it becomes very frustrating since there are hands that I might play but not in an all-in situation. And whenever it looks like you got the hand to put them in their place they out draw you.

My advice is expect it to happen and try to adapt your game strategy when necessary.

Maybe its just me but i don't think you can improve your game that much by playing freerolls unless your a begginner because I think it can do more damage playing with the kind of people you see in freerolls than good.

You cant judge your poker woes over PS freerolls because the PS freerolls are a joke. Just make decisions that you think are right and keep notes. Then go back and re-evalute yourself.

Let me guess. You are brand new at this. If so PM me. I have a method I teach to new members that help them learn and understand why this happens and how to avoid this, You've read a couple of books and think you have found a winning style. You can't have a style until you understand the game.
Tick Tock.................

thank you guys for all of these answers. Thank you for welcoming me here also. I figured after playing some freerolls that there are a lot of wild players who do go all in with nothing and luckly they pair something and beat people who play very tight and they waited all this time for AK to lose to 2 lucky pairs or flush on the river.. I think there is too many wackos in the first hour of the tourney to go all in with unless i hold the nuts.. So whats the best way to beat those wackos? Avoid them(sometimes you can't) but how annoying is to be beaten holding AA or AK by one of those guys who call your all in holding K7 or 53 and they flop pairs or flushes? You wait your turns waiting for those strong cards and a person like him will call your reraise with those weak cards...

there really isn't much you can do to be certain you will win against someone like that. all you can do is get your money in with the best hand, and hope it holds up till the river.
fwiw, you should know that most of those players never make it anywhere near the final tables of tournaments. simply because for every time they hit something lucky, there are 2 times when they don't.
good luck!

I agree with what everyone else has said and to throw in my bit.

Wether its freerolls or not, sometimes people are gonna make bad calls against you.

Some people won`t know they are making bad calls. They don`t know what u got. If you have a lot of ppl in the pot v your AA u r the fav out of all of the in the pot, but u r not neccesarilyt fav to win the pot.

E.G. u have AA, everyone else (other 9) go all in. You are about a 20% fav preflop - so u r the best price to win the hand, but only a 5:1 shot to take the hand down at the river. (if this makes sense !!!)

Even when I play cash game, if I know I`m well ahead when I push I sometimes don`t take much notice of the outcome - all I can do is control when I bet - I can`t control the dealer?

So, as everyone else has said, its a matter of time.

once again thank you all for helping me out, i`ll be saving all the next tourney hands so if i get another one beat like that which will happen for sure, i`ll want your input to as of I have made mistakes before the flop, after, river turn or was it just bad luck.. Thanks!!

ok guys so here you go, i just finished playing the tourney freeroll... and as usual i get to be unlucky one.. i`m seriously in some bad time right now or something.. each one of the tourneys i seem to lose in such an unlucky way... here's the final hand...

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TheseNutsWin [Ah Kc]
redskins6900: calls 50
3Ran: folds
DickCind: raises 3890 to 3940 and is all-in
TheseNutsWin: calls 2760 and is all-in
zion1118: folds
ACID_ ECKE²: folds
CrazyLady420: folds
ARharris: calls 3915
ILUVLAV: folds
redskins6900: folds
*** FLOP *** [Ac 9s Ts]
*** TURN *** [Ac 9s Ts] 9♥
*** RIVER *** [Ac 9s Ts 9h] 3♣
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ARharris: shows [Qc Ks] (a pair of Nines)
DickCind: shows [Js 9d] (three of a kind, Nines)
DickCind collected 2360 from side pot
TheseNutsWin: shows [Ah Kc] (two pair, Aces and Nines)
DickCind collected 8380 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10740 Main pot 8380. Side pot 2360. | Rake 0
Board [Ac 9s Ts 9h 3c]
Seat 1: redskins6900 folded before Flop
Seat 2: 3Ran folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: DickCind showed [Js 9d] and won (10740) with three of a kind, Nines
Seat 4: TheseNutsWin showed [Ah Kc] and lost with two pair, Aces and Nines
Seat 5: zion1118 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ACID_ ECKE² folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: CrazyLady420 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ARharris (small blind) showed [Qc Ks] and lost with a pair of Nines
Seat 9: ILUVLAV (big blind) folded before Flop

so what did i do wrong?? lol

Hey i'm no poker god or anything so dont take it as gospel but heres my advice, for a start, in the above hand that you posted you said nothing about what stage the tournament was in (although it can be guessed from someone calling 50 preflop) or what everyone elses chip stacks were as you were acting quite early on in the hand, this sites amazing for the advice that you can get but you need to inform people of EVERYTHING about the hand, Player1 was playing quite loose, P3 had previously got it all in w/ 79s and been paid off etc its also good for you to be noticing things like this as poker is hugely about observation and acting on previous behaviour.

Second, my tactic whenever i played in freerolls was to always be ultra tight in the first 2 or 3 levels, meaning i'd chuck AK suited or unsuited, to an all-in, without a thought, if i put it in the terms of someone who's pushing with a pocket pair i'd wanna be called by someone with AK, AQ, AJ, A10, cuz at the end of the day they still have to improve their hand when you dont. AK, AQ, or any ace for that fact gets hugely overplayed in freerolls and micro tournys (which will be your next progression if your just starting out) dont turn into a player that overplays it, i personally wanna see a flop with big slick because it is a good hand but i definetly dont wanna call an all in with it.

In summary when you ask what did i do wrong here? the answer, i think, is getting all you chips in before the flop with a hand that has to improve, obv in hindsight your hand didnt need to improve, and in freerolls it usually is ahead, but if your gonna play freerolls with the view to improving and moving on to real money play AK can be chucked pre-flop to an all-in bet.
To everyone else, please dont flame me for my reply, this is my view and i've said that he can take it or leave it, if there is anything wrong with it then please correct me as we're all learning here, thanks

Along with what orange has said (tourny stage) I don`t know what u think being lucky/ unlucky is.

Taking you to the real world of real money poker.

Depending on what that guy has done in the past, stage of tourny, etc it is difficult to say.

But, if it was mid tourny and the guy was a normal player, neither TAG nor LAG, you should have folded. You are putting your torney life on the line with Ace high. The fact the other guy has crap is irrelivant. U had about a 50% chance of taking down the pot even if u knew what the other guys had.

Now, if u did not know what the other guys had, what could u be a big fav against? The simple answer is very little. AK could be one of the most over rated pocket cards going.

Almost any pair u r behind, AA u r almost dead, KK u r way behind. If one of the other guys has AK also, the other guy has a pocket pair u r both in trouble.

Being brutally honest, the fact u were ahead when u got your chips in was luck - I don`t think u would have thought through what the others had.

The fact it was a freeroll and u called a raise with AK IMO is not a bad move. However, to post this as an example of a bad beat is a very bad move.

As it turned out, u had a very slight edge, thats all. Not even worthy of posting.

actually the reason i called is because the player to my right went all in second time in the row, first time he went all in I was holding KQ i folded andother hand right after he went all in again, so i figured this guy is trying to steal a pot and me holding AK i felt like i was very lucky to get to call this guys all in. I went all in and as you can see he was holding J7 totally shitty cards to go all in with.. Somehow he still got 2 damn 7s to kick me out of the tourney.. It was pretty much about an hour in to the tourney when all that happened...

You seem to be missing the point. u ask `Am I just being unlucky`

The blinds seem to be 50? 100 at most? If this guy is stupid enough to risk around 4000 chips to stand a chance of winning 200 so be it. Let him. He got lucky this time. It is not you v him - u r trying to last longer than anyone else in the tourny - u don`t win any prizes for taking him out.

The fact that it is a freeroll has a major bearing on it - u need to gamble, with gamble being the word.

Also, if u think getting all your chips in with AK against 1 raiser and a caller is a bad beat u have a long way to go.

Don`t get me wrong, I`m not saying your move was wrong taking into account it was a freeroll and the guy is a maniac.

What I`m saying is you asked for help and I`m trying to give you an honest answer from my experience.

Yes, sometimes it is hard laying down decent hand after decent hand against a maniac - sometimes you have to do it

"Also, if u think getting all your chips in with AK against 1 raiser and a caller is a bad beat u have a long way to go."

Ronaldadio:

A bad beat is a loss in which the losing player had the better odds on the winning player earlier in the hand. In general, the term is used when all the chips go in the pot when the losing player had odds. To take a bad beat means to be on the losing end of a bad beat; to lay a bad beat means to be on the winning end of a bad beat.

So you still think It wasnt a bad beat? I had AK, went against an agressive player who just went all in hand before, showing up J7 that is not a bad beat?

I have played many different freerolls on many sites, I personally try to avoid going all in early in the tourney due to all the donks that just try to double up on the early stages with nothing. Sounds like your over betting your hands, good rule to follow is dont bet more than 10% of you chips early, if it cost more to see the flop be cautious. If you dont hit something to help your hand on the flop, get away from the hand if its too expensive. Its very hard to bluff in a freeroll and you can guarentee a follow bet to an all in pre or post flop. So unless you have a great hand, play conservative untill the blinds catch up to your chips. Its better to win more small pots then to lose it all in a big one. Also keep track of you stats, I try to keep my stats under 20% of hands played.
Good luck!

You do have a long way to go, go and download pokerstove and run AK through it a few times.

You didnt know you had better odds when you got them all in, AA,KK,QQ in a freeroll you can be pretty confident that your ahead but with AK all it takes is a pocket pair and your flipping a coin for your tournament, its not a bad beat its a bad call that put you out of the tourny.

Even if he does push with J7 and the like, that does'nt mean he has nothing all the time, the amount of times i've been caught with my pants down trying to bluff the turn or river and in the very next hand been doubled up by someone who's called me down to a showdown with their ace high to my flush purely because i tried to bluff the last hand and lost.

If you'd have seen the flop and then got them all in and lost, it could have been classed as a bad beat, but as kenny rodgers once said, "you gotta know when to FOLD em" and i would've folded this, even in a freeroll you need to play good poker cuz if you dont your not getting anything from them, just wasting an hour or so that you could have used reading a book or poker magazine

so baisically if a maniac goes all in and you let him steal and next hand goes all in again you get AK you still let him steal?

got a bit lucky in this hand today playing another Freeroll.. half tight half aggressive table. pretty much beginning of the turnament :

Seat 1: eric oise (1640 in chips)
Seat 2: slimpicns60 (1490 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 3: preihs (1160 in chips)
Seat 4: TheseNutsWin (1380 in chips)
Seat 5: Irene Rose (1470 in chips)
Seat 6: tw biker9 (2810 in chips)
Seat 7: yomikkino (1480 in chips)
Seat 8: TheBest100 (1440 in chips)
Seat 9: seaslugger (630 in chips)
tw biker9: posts small blind 10
yomikkino: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to TheseNutsWin [Kh Kc]
TheBest100: calls 20
seaslugger: calls 20
eric oise: calls 20
slimpicns60: folds
preihs: raises 20 to 40
TheseNutsWin : raises 60 to 100
Irene Rose: calls 100
tw biker9: folds
yomikkino: calls 80
TheBest100: calls 80
seaslugger: calls 80
eric oise: calls 80
preihs: calls 60
*** FLOP *** [Qd 3h 6h]
yomikkino: checks
TheBest100: checks
seaslugger: checks
eric oise: checks
preihs: checks
TheseNutsWin : bets 400
slimpicns60 is connected
slimpicns60 has returned
Irene Rose: raises 970 to 1370 and is all-in
yomikkino: folds
TheBest100: folds
seaslugger: folds
eric oise: folds
preihs: folds
TheseNutsWin : calls 880 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [Qd 3h 6h] A♥
*** RIVER *** [Qd 3h 6h Ah] 4♥
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TheseNutsWin : shows [Kh Kc] (a flush, Ace high)
Irene Rose: shows [Qh Jh] (a flush, Ace high - lower cards)
TheseNutsWin collected 3270 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3270 | Rake 0
Board [Qd 3h 6h Ah 4h]
Seat 1: eric oise folded on the Flop
Seat 2: slimpicns60 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: preihs folded on the Flop
Seat 4: TheseNutsWin showed [Kh Kc] and won (3270) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 5: Irene Rose (button) showed [Qh Jh] and lost with a flush, Ace high
Seat 6: tw biker9 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: yomikkino (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: TheBest100 folded on the Flop
Seat 9: seaslugger folded on the Flop

My point is you dont know for sure that he's stealing again, i know its hard to believe but even the most manic of maniacs actually gets a hand eventually, he could be sat there with aces or kings got all you know, in which case ur a big underdog, if he's constantly going all in and being an idiot i usually let someone else call him unless i find myself with any pair above 10's or 9's and even then i'll only call if i know theres not going to be much action after me.

In the hand that u put up theres 6 players to act after you, that'd be far to much future action for me w/ AKo.

If i was feeling lucky and hadn't played blackjack or roulette for a while i might call with AK suited and gamble, even though i know its still a bad call and the sooted part only adds about 2% to my win percentage but thats another personal problem of mine entirely lol.

At the end of the day its a freeroll so no calls gonna put u on ur ass with nothing to eat but the way i always used to approach freerolls when i was learning was to treat them as if i was playing with all the money i had, play your 'A' game all the time and when you eventually move up to real money you'll be a lot more prepared because you've been making the correct desicions at the table for months, the way i see it is you can treat freerolls for what they are and throw your chips in with everyone else or you can play seriously and actually benefit from them.

For one thing you are betting way too much. Going all in preflop is a crapshoot. it isn't playing poker. Some players when seeing an all in especially at the start of a tourney, is just like throwing blood to sharks.
Don't forget there are 7 cards that you both have to play with and 5 are shared. If you are not waiting for your hand to come before betting, then any thing can and will happen.
Most times you want players to stay in the hand, you just don't want them to win.
In the first one with blinds at 50, you must have gone all in at least twice to have that many chips. The other players just assume you are going all in with any two cards. You will have a lot more callers at the start of tourneys, especially freerolls. They not only have no money invested, they have no time invested either.

It was a bad beat, if we use your explination. But if every time people lost a 2:1 shot preflop(and it wasnt because the other player in the pot made u even money to take the pot down) and they posted it here, the whole www. would explode!!!

I am sure I`m not on my own here by saying what I`m about to say...

You are very new to poker and I wish you luck. Poker is not an exact science, so all you can do is make judgements based on the information you have (this is you and the other person)

I`ll try to give u another example. If I was short stacked and u showed me AKo and I had J9 I would call - because I had 2 live cards.

I`m telling you now, u r lucky it`s me that is responding to your thread - some of the other regulars would not have been as kind

Ronaldadio , so in this case what are the only cards you would have called a maniac with? AA, KK ? the rest fold? Or would you just fold everything.

So you never go all in in preflop because its not poker? kind of weird statement. Why wouldn`t you call all in a maniac who has been playing very aggressive since the beginning and lately going all in hand by hand if you think you are probably holding the best hand out there?

i`m pretty new to this so don`t think i`m mocking you or something i`m just trying to understand your thinking...

I'm going to gamble with AA and KK pretty much every time here. QQ, I'll think about calling, but might not every time, especially early.

Otherwise, I'll happily let them steal a couple of chips until I have a premium hand and can double-up through them. My biggest hope isn't for them to stop doing it, it's that I get a calling hand before someone else does.

This is based on being early in the tournament. Later when I'm getting short on chips, I'm calling in more spots.

Try posting some HH in the analysis section, it will help you spot why calling is right in one spot and laying down a big hand is better another time. There is a lot more going on with playing a hand than just the cards you are holding.

When you post HH, please don't post the results right away. The results can really bias peoples opinions about the way a hand could/should have been played.

You have said you are new to poker. So I accept that sometimes its hard to understand the concept. Saying "so what will you call with" highlights your inexperience.

When making my decision I will take into account a lot of things. One thing I`m probably not worried about is this guy pushing all in as he has anything, so based on that I know I`m ahead most of the time.

The biggest concern is people to act after me.

Next will be how far into the tourny we are.

How many chips I have.

The list goes on.

To put you right here, I would have called if I had been you. The reason? I don`t bother with freerolls so if I had gone out it would not have bothered me. It does not seem to be the case with you. I always have an idea of how I am going to play certain hands before a tourny starts, but it will depend on action around the table.

Forget it is a freeroll and say u r playing in a big tourny. The answer to your question is yes, I would.

I said earlier in this thread that it is not my job to take this guy out. It is my job to accumilate as many chips as possible.

If this guy is going all in every hand with any holding he will be out soon - guarenteed.

This guys is pissing you off - correct??? You are sick of him moving all in???

What I do with people like this is tighten up - if he has position on you don`t even try to see a cheap flop - u r throwing chips away.

To keep myself occupied I watch him take down big pots and then within a short period of time I`m wishing him "gg" as he pushes one hand too many.

This is also a valid point and one of the reasons these players can build up a stack.

I`ve know times I have though "enough is enough" and called his raise with my AQ for him to turn over AA.

You know what's funny i think that playing they way Harrington teaches in his book in freerolls is not really a good idea.. I try to play as close as his book is saying, (still making mistakes) but i have some general idea how to play. I have a friend who just started playing a week ago. Never played texas hold'em before he has played as much during this week as i did and he has twice came very close to qualify (29/12000) (54/12000) . I have not even come that close as he did. How do you explain this? He playes much many hands then i do even hands i would not limp in, flopping monster. I`m starting to get annoyed , I read books end up playing worse then somebody who just started playing hold'em..