AK in a Tournament

#1 14th February 2008, 2:23 PM

Well for me Ace king is good to me, and bad in other ways, in poker i think anything can win because luck can be on your side, or you can drop three of a kind on the turn and river.. So i want to know how everyone would play the Big Ace King!
IM ALL IN!!!!!!

#2 14th February 2008, 3:02 PM

Everytime I get an ace-king I shudder it has killed me more times than not if I dont have it someone else does and takes me out. I know everyone raises with it Im afraid to I would lose my shirt faster.

#3 14th February 2008, 3:09 PM

If you play with idiots, limp or call small raises and see the flop.

If you play with poker players, raise the standard and see what the action is.

#4 14th February 2008, 5:18 PM

I started playing poker about 6 months, and I have improved soo much over those 6 months as im now playing medium stakes MTT and Ring.

But when I did play low stakes and was new to online poker I would be stupid and overplay AK every time I had that hand. Its a Above average preflop hand, but after that flop comes down and you bricked..make a good decision fold or you think AK is the best hand. Overall playing AK preflop and after the flop is all about the read you have on your player. Did he hit or not..Sure Ill call a All in with AK if I believe im going aganist AQ or AJ , AT. Who would not?.. Play it with caution though.

If your playing Micro stakes and you get AK with very loose players..SHIP IT and hope it holds

#5 17th February 2008, 11:25 PM

I think it's the most difficult hand to play !!
22 is better than AK so it's a good hand to push all in at the end o a tournament but I don't think it deserve so muh risks if you have multiple raises at the beginning of a freezeout tournament

#6 18th February 2008, 8:13 PM

As was said, it really depends on the game you are playing. Early in a 6000 person freeroll just push. Far worse hands will call. If you win great you now have some chips. If not you're out and did not waste too much time. Later on or against better players you don't want to overplay but you still need to raise. High cards play best against fewer players. You especially don't want to give the BB a free ride so he can hit some runner,runner, runner hand to beat you.

Post flop is a different story. Like the previous poster said, 22 beats you. Don't fall in love with your cards. If you don't hit something give it up and wait for a better spot. I'm not saying auto fold but if you continuation bet and someone behind you pushes just fold.

#7 18th February 2008, 8:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grand48

If i play with AK, i often loose. I don´t know why, but i need a little bit of luck. Bevor few minutes i have AK on tournament and a other player 4 4 and he wins. Often is AK bad!

Oh no you lost a coin flip, poker must be rigged.

#8 18th February 2008, 8:58 PM

Ak is by fat the most overplayed hand in hold'em. I will raise preflop (3X) and take it from their.

#9 18th February 2008, 9:55 PM

I Agree AK is over played it is not a made hand and even when people miss the flop yet it is low they feel inclined to call to the river of course in a tournie i would not throw it away to an unraised pot then again if i get raised then re=raised or even a big raise i can easily fold the hand without worrying about it to much

#10 18th February 2008, 10:19 PM

A/K is a blessing if you go up against A/Q, but if its 10/9 Suited donk time, it's pretty much a coinflip. And if its pockets, you have 6 basic outs. Generally, I'll raise it up a bit, or if theres a raise before me and I have a particularly strong or weak stack, go all in.

#11 21st February 2008, 2:00 AM

I love AK. It is a hand that can take down a lot of flops when I hit. I hate having kicker problems after flops, and AK eliminates that problem and if I hit top pair, top kicker I am able to bet with it, and if villain has weaker A or K I get paid off.
Doyle Brunson says he would rather have AK than AA or KK because it is easier to get rid of it it you miss the flop. I agree. gl

#12 21st February 2008, 2:09 AM

well Me Id Go All In. I Was Looking At A Chart And It Said Always Raise/Reraise Preflop With Ak AA KK QQ So I Usually Do.. Ak Is A Tricky Hand Though But Id Be All In

#13 21st February 2008, 2:07 PM

The value of AK is in its preflop fold equity, and as such should be played strongly preflop (barring a specific read). See here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by aliengenius

The advantages of AK are mostly in it's preflop value:

1. Fold equity. This is the biggest advantage of AK. For me it is almost alway a REraising hand preflop. For you to take advantage of this, you MUST play it aggressively (your opponent must fold). Small pairs can't really call you for fear that you have a bigger pair when you play it aggressively. If you do get called, even by something like QQ, you are still only a slight dog.

2. Pre-flop dominating hand. This is mostly applicable against donks who will call you with Ax soooooded. Inversely, you are only really dominated vs AA or KK (and you have about 30% vs KK).

3. Post flop your top pair always has top kicker when you hit.

Obviously when your opponent goes all in he has neutralized AK's biggest advantage as he can no longer fold. Against two random cards that don't include either and ace or a king you are not that big of a favorite with five to come, as other posters pointed out. But you don't ever really want to be calling an all in with very many hands (AA and KK excepted)-- YOU want to be the one doing the raising or pushing.

Just to look at it another way, let's compare AK to a small pair, say 55.

AK is a dominating hand. IF your raise is called you are (most likely) either:

1. way ahead (vs. a weaker ace)
OR
2. in a 50/50ish race.

With 55 you are (most likely) either:

1. way behind (vs. a bigger pair)
OR
2. in a 50/50ish race.

See the difference?

#14 21st February 2008, 8:45 PM

Unless your back is against the wall, tread cautiously with AK, especially unsuited. Give it a decent (2-4x) preflop raise or limp in in early position. Be careful after the flop, especially in lower limit games where people will call/raise with anything preflop. As always keep an eye on your opponents moves to try to get an idea of what they're looking for.

#15 21st February 2008, 9:18 PM

AK is big advantage, raise 3 to 4 times the BB then i go by the 4 2 rule and count outs and x by 4 or 2 and go from there

#16 23rd February 2008, 6:42 AM

hmm in some ways "alien" makes a point, I definitely agree but I wonder what the forrest is like when there is only one tree?

#17 26th February 2008, 8:47 PM

OK, this saved me a post, because I ws going to ask about how much to rise on the AK. My question now is: what the hecks a 4 2 rule? And lol Zach, I got a 2 headed coin: ones the devil, the other ones the devil! lol

#18 26th February 2008, 8:53 PM

^^^ I dont think thats a coin your flipping

In response to someone who said a,k is most overated hand, I disagree, a/j is the most overated imo

#19 27th February 2008, 5:03 AM

OK. But what the hecks a 4 2 rule?

#20 27th February 2008, 10:45 PM

I win more often on AK then AA, stats say this should not be the case, but since it is i tend to play it better and win more. Much love for AK

#21 2nd March 2008, 5:06 PM

4-2 rule is to get a close estimate hitting outs. Very simply math is required

Assume you have 2d-3d - flop comes 7d-Jd- Ac
Under 4 rule you have approx 36% of hitting flush (9 d x 4)
and 60% to improve you hand

if a blank come out on the turn; multiply your odds by 2

I think this is it anyway lol im busy playing right now,

can someone confirm this?

#22 2nd March 2008, 5:49 PM

Whats the math that says AK is 50-50 against any pair under KK?

ie. Theres 6 outs + combos or flushes/straights etc how is that 50%. I know it is cuz everyone says it is but I am not sure where those so few outs = 50%..

thanks

#23 2nd March 2008, 6:04 PM

I am presently laying in about a gazillion graves which have a headstone that reads.

But it was an AK. *#%$

-

#24 2nd March 2008, 8:44 PM

Which would you rather have AK OR QQ??

#25 2nd March 2008, 8:52 PM

I dunno. Depends. They both scare the crap outa me.

#26 2nd March 2008, 9:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadafi

Which would you rather have AK OR QQ??

Queens, its a made hand. A,k works best when it sees all five cards, not jsut the flop. Queens work well when only flop is seen

#27 2nd March 2008, 9:21 PM

AK is a hand not to be taken to strong as it is only a drawing hand. this being said, you're almost always going to be a coin flop or have your opponent dominated. the only two hands that have you in trouble are AA KK. play with caution, but you're almost certain to have a good chance at winning the hand before the flop.

#28 2nd March 2008, 9:38 PM

I went all in withe ace king in the button pos. and some idiot called with king 3 and beat me on the river with a 3.pr 3s why did he call?

#29 2nd March 2008, 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samuri

I went all in withe ace king in the button pos. and some idiot called with king 3 and beat me on the river with a 3.pr 3s why did he call?

-

#30 2nd March 2008, 9:49 PM

There have been a lot of good comments posted on AK. The biggest thing to remember is that you are playing a drawing hand not a made hand. I don't want to be redundant but it is a hand that can be overplayed as mentioned. By reading this I also see how it is underplayed by a lot of people. Yes it is behind dueces especially when we miss the flop but you still have a draw to two big cards and chances are your opponent with dueces is shaking in his boots. A continuation bet is almost a must with AK because unless they flopped a monster your drawing to the best hand. Now I'm not saying you have to bet the pot, you really shouldn't being betting the pot anyway on the flop so that your keeping it small. Don't ever let yourself or your opponent get pot committed until you know that you have the best of it. I feel for those players that say they always lose with AK. Because to be successful at hold’em you have to win with an AK and you have to win when you are against an AK. AK is a hand that you raise with from any position. And if you have been watching your opponents you might even re-raise with it against most of them. But I do not suggest that you ever re-raise with this hand from the little blind or the big blind (unless it came from a late position raiser who appears to be stealing the blinds) because you will have to act first from the flop on, which puts you out of position. AK is a positional hand! But you should always be putting your opponents on a range of hands from the moment you get involved with them. If the flop does not appear to have made them overly strong try making a bet; if nothing else they're going to stop and think and you remain in control of the hand. This is not a bluff it is a semi-bluff which conceals your hand if an ace or a king does come off, not to mention your ace high may be the best hand. If you get played back at re-evaluate and if you don't like the feel of the situation muck em. Where people misplay AK it is because they either get married to it, or they play it weak and don't steal when they could've stolen and let people catch up and pass 'em.

To address an earlier post about being a coin flip to all under-pairs that is not entirely true. It is a 70-30 dog to kings but a coin flip to all other under-pairs. To find the reason for that just calculate the odds. Take the number of outs you have times the number of cards to come times two. So in the case of AK vs QQ we have essentially 6 outs with 5 cards to come. 6 * 5 = 30(2) = 60%. But this 60% has to be discounted because our opponent could hit a Q which would crack our pair with a three of a kind. Basically that is how the two over cards work against the underpair but you ca use this formula and should use this formula throughout the game to calculate odds. For instance lets say you flop 4 to a flush and your opponent bets into a pot of $200 a bet of $50. Well the odds of hitting a flush on the turn are your 9 remaining, lets say hearts, times the one card to come on the turn times two. So basically 20% or 5 to 1 (9 * 1) = 9(2) = 18. Meaning 1 out of times you will hit your heart flush on the turn; assuming that no other hearts have been dealt out of the deck. But we don't have any information to make us assume otherwise. Now your are only getting 4 to 1 on your money so should you make the call? Well most of the time. If you believe that your opponent is liable to pay you off when you hit you should call all the time. You may want to reraise in this spot to disguise your draw, pickup fold equity and perhaps earn a free card on 4th street if your out doesn't come. Hopefully this helps answers the questions about the 2 - 4 rule and if not let me knom and I will try to post some more examples.

#31 2nd March 2008, 9:50 PM

I only raise with AK if it is suited only bc u have a bettter chance of getting a nut flush after the flop most of the time.

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