Advice from Beginner, Intermediate and Pros HERE!!!

Hey everyone. Im Jack. Ive been playing for 4 years but took a year off, and just now getting back into the poker world. Before, I just took it lightly and didnt care much about the game, just the money. But when I took the year off and got back into it, I wanna play to understand the game and make the right decisions. Money will come with it I know, but I wanna know the game! Its been a month since I got into it, and havent made any money or won any tournments. I have alot of books and videos. Im trying to read the books and understand it but I think im consuming so much information, its getting me no where. The reason I wrote this is because I wanna know what alot of yall do when you go to the table. What do you think abut during a hand. What do you do before you make a decision. Because when i get in a hand, my mind goes blank it seems. I just play my cards. And I know thats not right at all. I feel like I just need to start all over from the basics. Maybe some other good books someone can suggest. I just need some insight on what everyone does when they think at the table. Any help will be very helpful.

Like I said, I want to understand the game, and i try to make the right decision and know my decision is right every hand I play. Money is not an issue, but as long as Im makin the right decision, money will come along.

Thanks for everyones help.

_Jack

You came to the right place.

As for what I think. It depends.

It depends on the relative value of my hand, and what my reads on the opponents are. What is my stack size vs the potsize, do I have odds in favor or against my situation at the moment.

The list goes on and on, and I'm fairly sure you'll get good response to this thread.

All of us, like you, would love to get into the heads of our opponents.

Thanks. Its more than getting inside my opponents heads. What I need, and probably most of us, is an expert advice. Every hand I wonder what a pro thinks about. I mean, they probably have a certain order where they see how everything is happening. I just wonder what alot of yall do when you get the cards. What do you think about? When you see the player to your left look at his cards, what do you think about? Is there a certain order of thinking? I think im approaching the game wrong or not thinking enough.

Please respond more!
_Jack

Gotta do what works for you, not what works for someone else theoretically. Have you looked around the site yet? Many fine articles & threads here. Pick a topic, read a little about, it take the ideas to the table & try them out. Repeat over & over & over etc. Good luck & welcome.

Here is a tip to help you make the right decision.

Everytime I make an action I do it and then move the mouse button to the other side of the screen and take my hand off the mouse.

This does two things.

1) means that you do not make impulse clicks of the button ( because the mouse is not over the icon to call and your finger is not over the mouse button )

.....I used to find that most of my leaks for impulse calls without serious thoughts to teh way the hand or opponent had played.

2) it provides time for you to consider what to do next and removes the pressure to action immediately.


This may not be the expert advise you are looking for..... but it does give you time to think through the hand and the position that you are in.

I would like to add, that when taking time to think what your next move is, may I suggest shutting chat off as there are those who may try to rush you and if your the type of person that doesn't let chat bother you, then even better.
Also, make notes on your opponents betting patterns and what they show(if they do show) ie: Opponent made a 4xBB bet preflop with KK, if you make notes on the players at the tables and really pay attention to their bets, you'll be able to put them on certain hands as most players tend to bet the same way with the same cards time after time and don't think others catch-on or don't realize that their doing it.

i like this. people dont ask "WHY AM I DOING THIS ACTION?" enough. and things like this lead to you doing more than making [losing] motions.

I too scroll the mousepointer to the edge of the screen to supress impulse moves. Especially when I catch myself impatiently waiting for my turn, already knowing what play I want to make. For example, I've decided villain's stealing too many pots and I'm going to bluff him. I'll want to reraise him on the flop. By moving the mouse, I allow myself to consider the flop texture, the outs I have, and it actually looks like I put some thought into my move. Or I've flopped top two, and someone's betting into me. Moving your mouse off the buttons is a good idea.

Not really an answer to the TS's questions, but some generic advices:

- To non-US players on a site where you can change your currency: Keep your balance in $USD's. For one, it looks like it's a lot more. Secondly, if you're European: the US Dollar is very cheap right now in comparison to the Euro. If you keep your balance in USD, and the value of the USD rises again (maybe when they elect a new president), you'll get more Euro's for your earned dollars.
- Purchase PokerTracker if you're serious about poker. After each day, take some time to analyze the games you've played and to add notes in pokertracker about your opponents (which you can export). It's not neccesary to do so during the game.
- After losing your buyin 5 times in a row, it's definately time for a break :P Don't move up in limits to make up for your loss.
- Don't play drunk.
- If you're in a relationship, spend some time (and poker-earned money) on your man/woman. The importance is that if your relationship's going through a rough time you won't be emotionally balanced, and therefore is likely to affect your game. You need to feel good in order to play well.

DOH!
+ rep Calibanboy.

Such an easy fix to a nasty nasty leak in my game. Which I am defining this week. I donk, when I act too fast.

THis post has got me thinking, and the evolution of these thoughts is at this stage;

Analyze the facts, hand strentgh, position, stack size/blinds (M).
Usually this will tell me to fold. When it is not such a clear solution then I start thinking about the players. Who's in, who's not, and who has yet to act, and what might I expect him to do. If I have no reads then I want to error on the side of survival.
If I have a good to very good M, and nicely playable cards, like 89 suited in MP or later, and there is no known maniac yet to act, how might I want to play it. Or even 67 suited, or a mid pair.
I used to rush into acting, but now am beggining to understand that there is so much more to each situation, that when the rush comes, it behoves me to slow down a lot.

AH HA!, I got behoves into conversation today before anyone else did!

thanks to everyones advice. but im not an online player at all really. im talkin about live games. Im just to get a feel of what people think bout going to a table watching other players, thinking during a hand, etc... I read books and see how some pros think, but I think we could all learn steps from us non-experts, to see how evolve our thinking. The more we learn from each other, the more we grow and eventually move past the pros in thinking. So let me know what yall think.

Yeah, I'm guessing the only live player forum would be after a gamblers anonymus meeting.

Your experiences at live games are of interest to us too. Tit for tat.
You got several good replys,, lets call it your turn.

It is an area which we all, or at least those students of the game we like to think we are, can really share for mass betterment.


HUH?

Bingo. This is huge. Don't just raise to be aggressive or raise for the sake of raising. You must think "What do I want to accomlplish by betting/raising/checking. Theory of poker does a good job of explaining why you should check in some instances and why you should raise in others.

I can't say this enough, think about what you want to accomplish with whatever you are doing and what reason you have for doing it.

edit: calibanboy said it first so I better give him some credit too.

As much as thinking about each decision is good it isnt always the best way to play. Playing upon your wits although making more mistakes u will also make many marginal decisions better i have found. If u follow your gut it isnt wrong very often whilst if you overthink things you can talk yourself out of or into the opposite of what ure gut says. Of course some decisions need to be thought through. I do find though when i think things through i make the wrong decision more often than not.

Think long think wrong.

The donks route to simplified poker
I have tried to compile a list of checks i run through when getting dealt a new hand. Some of them are personal, correcting specific flaws in my game, but others are general and might be usuable for others than me. I have placed the personal rules separately at the bottom. As Kenzie said, its mostly about what comes natural. I like to be aware of my situation on an informed level before i donk all my cash out anyway...

1 - Hand value and odds (Standard chart. PLUS Outs calculation as simplified probability by using 2 pct pr. card and Pot Odds converted to pct. to match outs calculation).
2 - Current limit and stack (I use the Harrington M factor: Stack / SB+BB+Ante = M, above 10 all is safe, below 10 its time to start simplifying your game).
3 - Position. (As the real estate guys say, its all about location, location, location).
4 - Current field (any super loose donks raising 7-2, any rocks, etc etc. If i havent got any idea of the table yet, ill tighten my game alot).

Bet decision. If going in raise min. 3-4 BB. Rare limp allowed if the table lets you and the cards are ok for it. (TAG mixed with series of LAG in max 3 hand bursts - unless i get gold served again and again).

DO NOT
-Chase a flush
-Fall in love with your hand postflop
-Go all-in when re-raised on a solid table

This is actually really good. For a long time I was definitely guilty of 'impulse clicking' - discovering my problem was one of the triggers of this post I made a while back. </pimpage>

I think that this post might be one of the most insightful posts i have read yet. Good advice guys!

I always made myself the same question:
are you ready to lose with that hand??
this helps me not going on tilt and besides it gives me some time to reanalize my decision

I think poker is mostly common sense applied in what ever situations you might find yourself in. Knowledge of pot odds, Best starting hands and of your opponents helps but i'd suggest waiting to learn that. First you need to learn the basics.

What kind of player are you- aggressive, tight, loose etc...

Also Never chase straights and flushes unless the odds are in your favor. But in general its bad play because someone hits two pair on the flop, u have flush draw and call. Then your flush doesn't come off and your screwed. Generally people who chase cards go broke.

Also crancko made an excellent point. Don't fall in love with your hand preflop. What i mean is if you get dealt AA and the flop shows j 8 9 Suited, dont assume you have the best hand and call anything or you'll go broke.

I think poker is like learning a language it takes time and theres no quick way to do it and even the most skilled player will learn new things and become more articulate at the game and like a language the more you use it the more skilled you become at it.

When i first started playing a while ago i thought poker was just about getting good cards and betting them. That of course is completely false. Someone once said " you play cards i play poker" what he meant was a skilled player doesn't need to be dealt good cards.

LOL all im saying is poker is more complex than i had ever thought and i know its going to be a long time before i become truly good at this game. I'd suggest sticking around on this forum, reading threads, asking questions and playing poker because you won't become great over night.

It is all about experiance to be honest untill you have that all the books in the world will not help you. Once experiance is gained yoou will learn ure style as it will change a lot over time.

I really try hard to get into the other person's head. I am always looking around the table to find the weakest players. Once I target someone as weak, I ask: how and where is he weak? What exactly are his mistakes? Once I figure that out, I decide how I can take advantage of that. I try to get identify situations where he will be weak and I will be strong, so that if they come about I will already have a plan ready. Most of the situations I think of will never come to pass, but it exercises my brain and better prepares me for the real situation when it happens.

I'm so happy I found you all... SO many hours having these discussions between my right ear and my left... Not knowing this was going on. Where have you been all my life, CC?

little limping.....rarely bluff....bet the nuts....fold the rest.

and i make sure i dont play mind games with myself.....always stick to the stradegy you are using

bump as well

dont drop the soap

First post, what up all. Here's my advice

I've never played live in an actual casino yet but here's what I would do if I were you. First when you go to a table don't just sit down at the first open seat, scope the different tables at the limits you like so that you can pick the best table. You definitely don't want to purposely sit at the toughest table if you have options to sit at an easier game even if the limit is a notch lower than what you are used to. I won't get too much into that unless you reply asking for advice on how to look for the best table.

You wanna think what the pros would think? For the most part they are thinking about gaining information whether they are in the hand or not and here are some ways to do that.

GAINING PREFLOP INFORMATION
Heres some of the first things I do when I get to the online tables that will apply to live games. First I look to see who the most aggressive players are and than I take in consideration who the tight players are. This will come in handy later. SECONDLY, this something highly underrated by alot of people, I look for the players that are most adamant in defending their bb. Sometimes even the aggressive players won't defend their blinds, so see how people react when other players raise into their big blind. If the BB folds to a minimum raise than this would indicate and extremely tight/weak player and this means you can raise this persons blind in an uncalled pot alot more with virtually almost nothing, but don't do it to often because others at the table might start to catch on, and if the bb calls you can bet on the flop but if he calls that bet than you might want to slow down and give that type of person credit for a hand if you didnt hit. You also have to pay attention to who the bb will fold his blinds too, because this a can also give you a piece of information as to who is tight/agressive with certain hands. You also should single out weak post flop players blinds, because even if they call to defend their blinds you can fire a probing size bet and if they are weak post flop player they will fold 8-9/10 if they dont hit top pair. I would strongly advise you not to steal a players blind that will get frisky after the flop, they might reraise you with nothing and if you can't read well you'll end up folding, and even if you can read well if you don't hit you might end up folding anyway. I only raise these type of players blinds when I have good hands for real. Start by doing these few things preflop and you'll pick up a lot of small pots and those small pots will help you to gain confidence and play more comfortably. When you fold to a reraise preflop this will make you look like a smarter player and your aggressive preflop action will help you to get your real hands paid off when you get them. Don't be afraid to reraise another player that you think is trying to steal the blinds with a marginal hand your reading has to be good to do this tho, and I usually don't reraise without position because you can't afford to check the flop out of position. Try some of these tips, whatever ones you are comfortable with and I guarantee your game will get better.

GAINING POSTFLOP INFORMATION AND THE PSYCHOLOGICAL GAMES
IMO, one of the most important pieces of information you can gain post flop is what a player shows down with. It is extremely important to pay attention to all showdowns, and once you see a particular showdown you have to reconstruct the hand from street to street in your head and detect their betting patterns and mentally associate the hand they had at the show down with those particular betting patterns. Also I would look to pick up any visual tells if possible that you can also associate with a specific hand showed down. Once you've seen a good amount of hands shown down you'll get a good idea of how they play. Based on show downs, you want to see how a person plays with the nuts, with draws, top pair with top kicker, top pair with marginal kickers, and also middle and bottom pair, all of these must be taken into perspective of how he plays them when the player has position and when he doesn't, because most likely he'll play all of those hands differently with different position. Also, from the show down you can also learn what a person raises with preflop in what position, this is important because an under the gun raise usually only comes from a player with a premium hand but sometimes people will raise with anything under the gun and throw you off. For example some people will only call with aq ak under the gun/early position, but they will raise it up in late position if they sense weakness. You have to be weary of these things and who will play like this because it'll save you some money when you have top pair with a weak kicker because if your going to lose money on that hand you want to lose a small pot not a big hand. Once you learn from show downs and put people on hands than you can represent more hands in situations. Sometimes you have to pay for information, if its cheap to see a show down sometimes I'll purposely call a small bet just to see what my opponent was betting into me with, especially when you go to the river and you are getting pot odds to call you might as well at least call if you have no clue what they have to gain some info for future hands. Once you learn your reads you have to go with your gut and start raising more to gain information. You should think when you can make a raise to take the whole pot down and when you can make a raise to take control of the hand, with well timed raises you can take control of drawing players hands with bottom pair and make them lay down with a continuation bet. Once you start raising alot though you have to consider if players are started to get agitated by what you are doing and which players can keep their composure under pressure. If I know I am starting to get in someone's head to a point where I known they might just go all in over top of my raise I'll stop raising that person with marginal hands to make it seem like i'm not just trying to push that player around because once you get under someones skin like that, raising with marginal hands will get you introuble if you can't call a reraise all in bluff. If I am on the button and I know the bb is capable of reraising based on the idea that they are getting agitated due to continuous raising, tilting because of a string of badbeats or is competent enough that I am simply raising trying to take their blinds than I won't raise on the button without a hand, that way when the reraise does come I can call it. If you know its a possibility of getting reraised even if you think your marginal hand is good than I'll just call alot more, because you'll be forced to play a big pot when your not confident in your hand just because of someone else's current mindset, and thats not to exclude the fact that they may actually have a hand. The point of raising without the nuts is to take down the pot then and there or to gain information to determine whether your hand is good or not, You can also raise with position on the turn just to scare your opponent to check on the river so that you can check behind him in hopes that your hand is good on a showdown. If you think your gonna get reraised by raising than you don't raise without a strong hand. My advice to raising is make all of your raises similar, I'll raise up bottom pair the same amount I would with the absolute nuts alot of times, it makes your raises look alot more un predictable. Though its much more to talk about the last thing I want to say right now is sometimes you shouldplay some psychological games with a specific player that interferes with the way you play. Players that interfere with your playing style will definitley impede your process of winning pots so you should play some pots with the intent to solely let that person know that you don't like how they are currently playing whether you will lose or win the pot. This may sound stupid, but sometimes I feel that it is necessary, though you might lose a little money in a session by doing this you'll definitely get a player that impedes the process of you gaining income off of your back. This particularly applies to a player that will call with almost anything just because he has position on everyone else and there are few callers to the pot, just because he/she knows they can pick up a small pot with a bet to a checked pot OR the type of player that will bet on any checked pot more than usual trying to stab at it to take it down (i'll call this the check bettor). First, I raise alot more when this player limps when he is in position and I act after him so that I can take control of the pot then and there preflop. When I have a hand and they are in position I nearly always check raise their flop bets, this will help to slow down the player's flop bets because they'll fear getting checkraised constantly. On a checked flop with me and just the position player/check bettor in the flop I'll check raise the turn more often especially with over cards and especially with position because he'll be virtually forced to check without a hand of position when I am still left to act, you can often bet here or even check here with nothing but over cards and still win the pot (because remember he's just trying to steal the pot because no one is betting). Lastly I'll raise up hands that I think I can take down with nothing when it is me, the check bettor/position player and a passive player. Sometimes the passive player will have the best hand and will win the pot and my read will be wrong, but the check bettor/position player will be taught a lesson if he goes along for the ride because not only will you lose money but if he calls it'll send him a message that if you play a lot of pots with me be willing to lose some of your stack when I have nothing. It really sinks in when you raise the turn with you the aggressive player and the passive player in the hand and all call and than the passive player leads out on the river and you fold right behind the aggressive player. He'll think to himself "this player is an idiot and if I keep getting in pots with him I'll lose more money with marginal hands". By this point you'll at least have slowed down the position player/check bettor when he is in pots with you because you will have somewhat of a crazy image at the table.

Hope some of that helped, if anything is specifically confusing quote it and reply back, and remember like someone else said, You have to play your style, not all things will apply, but some of these tools can help. If your looking for something more specific I suggest you create a hand for hand analysis so it can be broken down in the way that you want.

I play Live although i may miss a few things here is my thought process in various situations

Pre Flop

1. Whats my position / Wheres the button
2. Who's acting after /before me in the hand
3. Quick Glance at players veiwing their cards
4. Whats the action when it gets to me
5. What do i have / what could they have
6. What do i want to acheive with my next move

I would have looked at basic tells, bets, what kind of players are after me during the entire hand (aggressive players are likely to put me off). Can i steal the button here etc.

Flop - Turn - River

1. Reactions of opponents to flop
2. Who's bet - what did they do pre flop - what have they done before - is they betting consistent to what i think they have
3. What could they have / are they tight/aggressive
4. what would i need to win the pot / what are my odds to win the pot / pot odds / Can i bet to win the pot but still give myself correct odds if called
5. Whos after me, what would they think i have


this is not totally accurate i may have missed things but i generally have these thoughts in my head during live games.

Patience used to be an issue for me so i adpoted this thought process when not in hands to occupy me and improve my read

i play live almost daily. main thing is just to put in your time and gain experience. ive read almost every book on the shelf, and they do help, but there is no sub for experience. you really have to be there to understand what they are trying to explain in the books/videos.
another main point is to try to figure out the story the other player is telling. if it doesn't make sense he may be bluffing, and same goes for you. when i started i would try to make bluffs that just didnt make sense and would get called 90% of the time by the more experience players.

There's been alot covered here. One thing I do (particulary pre-flop) is watch the action of the players (counting bets) before it is my turn. I NEVER look at my cards until it's my turn. I concentrate on what the other players are doing. I play 3/6 Live and that sometimes annoys people, but I very rarely if ever have a hard time making a quick decision about how to play the hand. I have watched all the action, it's my turn, look at cards, the play should be obvious.

Watching the action is very important. Counting bets is a must! You can't do it while your thinking about how strong/weak your hand is.

For online play, I habitually (took me a while to do) put my mouse pointer in the same spot. Never over a button. There have been times when I planned a raise but would probably fold to a raise and accidentally re-raised. Ouch!

I really wish the poker sites would give an option of waiting to see your hole cards.

Young hova,

While im sure all the info in that post above is great, i did not read it.

Reason: no paragraphs, no breaks in the post. it was too cramped/crammed.

when you are posting replys that long it might be wise to structure the response in a more readable format.

More people might read it.

just a thought.

Awesome post, just goes to show the level of players at Cardschat. Big thumbsup

as a relative newcomer I like to practice using freerolls - OK my scotch (sic) blood but it gives me a good chance to practice what ius the most bimportant part of tournaments - PATIENCE

i would discourage anyone including newcomers from playing freerolls...

i like that i used to do the same thing (bluff at wrong time ) and see lots of people doing it and get nailed , the bluff needs to seem fesible to work.