adjusting from online to live play..

any tips for keeping track of players live, since we dont have Poker Tracker/PAHud to help?

Bring a notebook to the tables

I don't play much live, but I'd imagine it would be mostly by memory that you would keep notes. That, and I've heard that lots of players keep (actual) book on the players; they go home, and write everything down that they remember from that session. I've heard of pros having bookcases full of individual booklets on players they've played with in the past.

OK Chuck, that works if you know you will see these people again. LOL You think you will see any of these players again if you go to a casino.

I just try to pay attention to general actions. Are the passive or aggressive. Keep track of those who make loose calls and show their cards. Those are the people you want to play against.

errr well if we're talking about in a single session, then you must have some pretty poor memory if you can't remember who's tight and who's not...

never have and never will

Sunglasses, ball cap, & headphones. All musts.

Are we talking about hiding tells or keeping track of players?

I was kidding. Not sure about the others.

The short answer on how you keep track players is that you don't. I've played regularly at my local casino for a couple of years, and it's only half the time I know anyone at a table, and usually thats only 1 or 2 players. You don't have a good way to track players (can you imagine how many guys you would have to describe as "overweight, middle-aged basball cap guy"?), so you have to rely on your memory for regular players.

The best advice I can give is from my own experience - play slowly and cautiously for the first two revolution/orbits. Get a feel for the table. Within 16 hands, I can name you all the Maniacs, TAG's, calling stations and tilts at a table with certainty. You get a lot more signals and information live than online - use that to offset the lack of hand history in your arsenal.

If you are talking about a bunch of buddies playing a home tourny then I can see using a notebook to keep track of them and who is winning/losing (just had to give Chuck a bad time). If this is going to be a weekly/monthly thing I could see spending the time if the stakes are worth it.

If you are talking a casino cash game, forget it. Half the people are not local, a quarter are locals but just their this one time and the other 1/4 are the people there to truely make a profit off of the other 3/4. You only really need to spot those people.

Live local tournaments will be a mixed bag. If you go to every one of them for a year you may start spotting enough people after awhile to make it worthy to try and keep a journal but in my experiences you won't see enough of the same people at the end of tournaments playing for the money to make it worth your while.

Live is a mix of reads/style and tells. Most casino players I see have tells that read like neon signs. Unless your brain functions like a computer you will never get the info that those programs can track for you. I have never used them so I guess I can't say what it is like to not play with them after getting use to them for info. Go old school and just do the best you can.

Best advice live if you want to pay attention to people is this. Watch closely to the two to your right. You have position on them and that is where you will make your money. Watch the two people to your left. They have position on you and that is where you money will go. If you can pick up anything on these 4 people it can save you money on a bad call or allow you to steal pots.

"Best advice live if you want to pay attention to people is this. Watch closely to the two to your right. You have position on them and that is where you will make your money. Watch the two people to your left. They have position on you and that is where you money will go. If you can pick up anything on these 4 people it can save you money on a bad call or allow you to steal pots."

i like this advice

On High Stakes Poker (either episode 2 or 3) you can see Daniel Negreanu writing something in his notebook almost every play. Your situation will probably be different but everyone loves what he does.

I play about 90% of my poker online but have played a few ring game sessions at our casino. Playing the 2/5 NL I was pretty surprised at the standard of play, in that it was very poor. Keeping track of players is much easier to do live than online as you get to see the whole picture and are privvy to everything that the other players say. The best thing is to hear the analysis of a particular play by some others at the table. The weak players really make themselves known here. Playing live you also get an immediate idea of who is there to make money and who is there to have a good time. Online I keep notes but in live play a mental track is good enough.

Caro's advice about the two to the left and right is also pretty accurate.

Lastly I'd point out patience as a key factor in your results. Playing online you get in around 60-70 hands an hour. In live play this drops to around 40, so if you play TAG it seems like a millenium before you get a nice hand. Beware not to force the issue because of this.

Joose: if you're looking for tells and tips on live play, Mike Caro's book of tells video is great. Terrible acting, but it gets the job done

You can find the entire vid on torrents, or here in clips:
http://www.poker1.com/absoluteig/mcu...?categoryid=13

I rarely play live, and everyone I have played with has been pretty unexperienced; the tells are so accurate with these people it's not even funny. Things like throwing your bet instead of placing it gently into the middle, staring you in the eyes etc etc. Great stuff.