Ace Rag Suited

Am I throwing good money after bad playing these hands? My theory is if I can limp in and catch a flush then it will pay off over time or catch two pair and be paid off by a pair of aces with a weaker kicker. Sound judgement or not? I have the discipline (most of the time) if I catch an ace and figure someone has me outkcked to lay it down.

So your only playing the hand to catch a flush or 2 pair? How will you get paid off the few times you hit your flush? What happens when the better ace hits a better 2 pair? Are you playing them in all positions?

I'm not one to tell people what they should or shouldn't do, I think the variety is whats great about this game but you should see a few of the weaknesses in your theory.

You need to play those kind of hands from position and for cheap flops only.You also need to be able to imagine being outkicked and fold when appropriate.

What limits are you playing? It seems at the lower end of things, ANYONE will play Ax in MOST positions reguardless of the flop or texture of the board.

That being said, unless you have a high enough kicker, I would not even bother with it. Most people (again, at the lower limits) love to play Ace/anything... could be a 2, could be the joker... could be the rules card.. just something to keep in mind.

An auto fold for me, unless, a big blind limp and I get the free look at the flop.

In general, more trouble than it is worth.

^^^This

I would use rag suited as a blind stealiung hand or maybe fill the SB if I was getting great pot odds but apart from that you have to remember that your odds of flopping that nut flush are 110:1 and just 9:1 of even just flopping a nut flush draw.

Unless there are just 1-2 people left to act, even if you pair the ace you could get carried into a hand with worst kicker.

You are 50:1 against making two pair. When will you ever get these kind of pot odds? unless you are in late position with no callers I would toss these away!

You should be playing those cards only when you're BB and nobody raises and you hit a flush by accident. In the long run you will lose.

This is one of the notes I make on folks "plays Ax" to let me know they are on the fishy side of the "Shark - Fish" scale.

One thing that maybe you guys could answer for me. I've been using the "Sklanskey" groups to help me decide where and when to play, but it seems that they over value suited cards.... wrong place to ask?

PJ

its only marginally a better hand than any rag ace. If you can limp in cheap from mid to late position its ok but if you dont hit the draw dont get carried away with them

Yep, this is what I do. Sometimes it can pay off big. But, you've got to lay it down quickly when you miss.

I'll play A.Rag suited only from late position & no raisers in front of me; if there aren't 2 more of my suit on the flop I'll lay it down to any bet.

OK thanks for the advice. I was kinda thinking that I was throwing my money away but just wanted confirmation as elsewhere I've read that they are worthwhile playing from any position...not that I agree but I can't stop myself.

Does anyone know how to create a custom report in PT3 to show how many times I've been dealy AX suited and how much I've won/lost?

Thanks!

I've sorted my own problem...stand down.

The power of the kicker card can not be forgotten! If you are suited, it is slightly better than not, but you are still playing a dangerous game. If you can see the flop for a limp or "free" in your blind, then do it. Don't get too excited and over value your cards when the flop comes and it can be a decent aggresive play. It isnt' a bad had to bluff with either. I wouldn't call any raises with it though. I know I have seen many people play Ax suited or not to my 4x - 6x BB raise when I have KK or QQ. Then when they hit that A I want to kill them...especally if I am stupid enough to pay to see it.

A-rag suited has lousy showdown value preflop against a preflop raiser. If your plan is to get aggressive postflop against a relatively passive/weak postflop player, I like A-wheel suited hands in position - you can semi-bluff a lot of flops and turns - but calling down postflop is throwing money away, so if that's your plan pf, just fold.

I prefer to play the wheel end of A rag suited more so then I would, A9, A8 or A7. Still I would prefer to see this flop as cheaply as possible and as late a position as possible.

A lot of this is the 08 player in me talking but I do apply it to HE at times.

Those hands depends more on position, your opponents, your chipstack and your image.
If you got the discipline to lay them down if anyone holds an ace with a better kicker and you can see the flop by limping you can play those hands...

All depends - stakes, cash or tourney - POSITION.

Myself - cash game - from late position I will limp in with (all suited of course) A-10, A-9, A-8 A-7, A-5, A-4, A- 3, A-2 (NOTICE I SKIPPED A-6, probably the worst of all the A suited rags - does not connect, neg EV)

I will raise with: A-K, A-Q, A-J suited


In a tournament, I will probably raise with any A suited in late position (early on in the tournament, and if I have a large stack) But most people don't play tournaments like I do - somewhat tight aggressive in the very beginning until I build up a decent stack then I become a loose aggressive maniac, devouring short stacks...lol)

Everytime you limp, the poker gods kill a kitten to soothe their anger at such a stupid move. Save the kittens, stop limping.

That is my new signature

The only time I ever play a suited A rag is if I can limp in the SB or if I'm sitting on the BTN and I feel I can push the blinds off of their hands, i.e. they play very tight. Occasionally if everyone in the whole table has limped I am generally getting such great pot odds that it's worth a limp on the button to see if you can flop the flush. Just don't get attached to the hand if you catch an ace on the flop...

I take your point but there's a time and a place for a limp.

IMO it depends on the table. Generally I'll try to see a cheap flop with AX suited. If the table is a lot of tight aggressive players, I'll play them from position. Generally speaking I miss my flushes and make my straights, though, so I'd be more likely to play 67s then AXs.

The biggest money making hands are when somebody hits a big hand and somebody else makes the bigger hand. AXs just means if somebody hits that flush you've got them beat. But do you really want to draw against people who have your outs? My biggest cash game loss was to Ah9h, I had KK and flopped a set to a 2-flush board. I smooth called the flop, and should have raised all in on the turn, when the Ad came out. Instead I smooth-called again, the heart came out and like a donk I paid him off. Ergh. If I ever see that guy on the tables again, we will have a rematch. And I will bleed thousands of dollars in chips into him again.

Look at it this way: A rag s can get u in trouble, if you can get away, fine. But even getting in cheap in position, yr chances of flopping that flush are around 120:1. So 119 times you are basically paying for a hand you will throw away (unless you are chasing a draw), and either way, if 3 to a flush hit the board u r unlikely to get paid off for all the times you threw in yr chips (dozens of times -- you need a big payback to break even and it is unlikely).

you don't try to flop a flush. You try to flop enough equity to all you to be aggressive

I think it is interesting that you ask this and i think it really depends on the game (limits/opponents). Ace rag suited can sometimes be profitable even because you may already have the best hand against loose opponents. Even with that said though against these looser type of opponents tighter play is usually the most profitable style in the long run...just something to think about . I think though since you said you feel that you can lay down the pair of aces when you think you are beat then this is a playable hand for your game for the most part.

I hate Kittens. Everbody limp

What about the odds of you hitting 2 pair or the odds of others not being dealt an ace.. hitting 3 pair.. ect? That sure chops the 119 down to size, am I right or am I wrong?

trying to play these hands to catch a flush is foolish, or even 2pair. i would never play these utg or in early position especially in a tourney. if you're playing 1/2c cash games it is slightly more acceptable but no from early position

most of the time this game is jsut getting lucky....with a suited ace ill mostly stick to playing these hands in late pos ...and will almost never call a preflopp raise with .......its a great hand to get paid off with when you hit a flush cuz the way it seems at the lower levels especially no one ever believes .....i usually check the flush when it hits and let them catch up hit a straight or two pair or if they too have a flush let them think their king or queen high is good....then if they bet the river i just quickly reraise two or three times their river bet or maybe just insta shove on em ..i like to make my river bets fast when i have the nuts ...looks really bluffy

Hmm I do think that your gods should kill something else...

however calling can be the right play, especiall after other limpers, as always it depends who you playing against and what you want to achive with your hand.

as for the AXs just remember the flush draw is at 3% so alone it's a no good, you have to be able to lay down weak kickers hands if you get the Ace, and that will put you in though spots.