4-bets preflop. To shove or not to shove?

#1 18th June 2010, 11:49 PM

I've been experimenting with 4-bet shoves instead of a more pot-size re-raise. Only when effective stacks are around 100bb or lower of course.

I've met with limited results, but over only a very short set of hands. What is everyone's opinion on this? Does shoving lose value compared to a more standard raise size?

This is micro stakes btw.

#2 19th June 2010, 12:01 AM

I think you get more value shoving, at least from players like me. At micros, smaller 3/4 bets (like minraising or a little more) is very, very, very often a monster. If you just shove, I think you get more value from fish, as they wont have a (much) different range to 3bet or call a 4bet shove, and regs will play it much the same way.

#3 26th June 2010, 12:41 PM

I prefer shoving. Keeps things simple. If you 4bet normally and they shove you should NEVER fold. The pot odds are just too good for any hand you would really consider 4betting with in the first place.

It is worth thinking about when you will 4bet shove though. Would you do it with AK? QQ? 77? Looser against a frequent 3-Better?

#4 26th June 2010, 12:46 PM

When you're 4betting light some of the time, you should always 4bet to 3x or whatever your normal size is as long as it's less than about 1/3 of the effective stack (if it's more, just shove).

If you're never 4betting light, nothing wrong with 4bet shoving.

#5 27th June 2010, 5:00 PM

I like shoving too and usually just 3bet or 3 bet light depending on the cash limits and the players

#6 7th July 2010, 7:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lofwyr

I've been experimenting with 4-bet shoves instead of a more pot-size re-raise. Only when effective stacks are around 100bb or lower of course.

I've met with limited results, but over only a very short set of hands. What is everyone's opinion on this? Does shoving lose value compared to a more standard raise size?

This is micro stakes btw.

I too have put a some thought into this lately. Hands I now 90% 4 bet shove with are AK and JJ+. Your equity vs. villans that 3 bet and then are willing to call off to a 4 bet is 77+ AQ+ is pretty much a coin flip, but you also have fold equity vs. some of that range and as well as having 3 bet bluffs fold too.

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