PokerStars - $0.05 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
UTG: $3.01
UTG+1: $5.03
MP: $3.76
MP+1: $5.10
LP: $7.21
CO: $1.78
BTN: $7.48
SB: $5.00
Hero (BB): $5.00
SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05
Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has 9♣ 7♣
UTG calls $0.05, fold, fold, MP+1 calls $0.05, LP raises to $0.25, fold, BTN calls $0.25, fold, Hero raises to $0.75, fold, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.50
Flop: ($1.87, 2 players) Q♠ 8♠ 9♦
Hero bets $0.75, fold
Hero wins $1.78

Originally Posted by fx20736

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
UTG: $3.01
UTG+1: $5.03
MP: $3.76
MP+1: $5.10
LP: $7.21
CO: $1.78
BTN: $7.48
SB: $5.00
Hero (BB): $5.00
SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05
Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has 9♣ 7♣
UTG calls $0.05, fold, fold, MP+1 calls $0.05, LP raises to $0.25, fold, BTN calls $0.25, fold, Hero raises to $0.75, fold, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.50
Flop: ($1.87, 2 players) Q♠ 8♠ 9♦
Hero bets $0.75, fold
Hero wins $1.78

Seems like your inviting one of them to call here, a call is not exactly what you want with this type of hand OOP, you at least want some fold equity to make this move right. I think..

Originally Posted by fx20736

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
UTG: $3.01
UTG+1: $5.03
MP: $3.76
MP+1: $5.10
LP: $7.21
CO: $1.78
BTN: $7.48
SB: $5.00
Hero (BB): $5.00
SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05
Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has 9♣ 7♣
UTG calls $0.05, fold, fold, MP+1 calls $0.05, LP raises to $0.25, fold, BTN calls $0.25, fold, Hero raises to $0.75, fold, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.50
Flop: ($1.87, 2 players) Q♠ 8♠ 9♦
Hero bets $0.75, fold
Hero wins $1.78

From nit to spewtard.

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

From nit to spewtard.

lol ok good Stu is on my side

its just not a hand you want to 3bet

I am coming around to the idea that 3betting polarised ranges OOP from teh blinds = spew.

I get the impression that people are far more likely to call a 3bet when they have position and this means that we should be expanding our value range and not trying to make him fold with mid SCs. I ran some reports and filters in PT3 and it appears that villians are atleast twice as likely to call our 3bet when they have position.

This would mean I think that when I look at the overall fold to 3bet stat in my hud and it says 70%, Villian is actually folding OOP to 3bets over 80% and IP like 50%!

We should therefore be really opening up our bluffs when we have position.

Now I guess Stu will reply and tell me that the last 160 words were utter nonsence!

Originally Posted by Deceitful_Frank

I
Now I guess Stu will reply and tell me that the last 160 words were utter nonsence!

What makes you think Id take the time to count them?

But yes you are right people do call more IP than OOP.

Villian is in the HJ so his range is still fairly narrow.

SC play well in deep pots IP and you have created a HU pot OOP

Your 3bet range would have to be 20-25% + to include 97s If you are only 3betting as a bluff occasionally then why not 3bet bluf AX..it has a blocker plus more equity than 97s.

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

Your 3bet range would have to be 20-25% + to include 97s.

What??? Only if he's 3betting everything from AA down to 97s but that obviously not the case. A 3bet range of QQ+/AK and all suited gappers 75s-J9s is like 4.1%, 2/3 of which is value. I don't hate 3betting 97s at all BUT you need to know your villains enough to know that they're usually going to fold and at 5nl I doubt that's the case at all.

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

What??? Only if he's 3betting everything from AA down to 97s but that obviously not the case. A 3bet range of QQ+/AK and all suited gappers 75s-J9s is like 4.1%, 2/3 of which is value. I don't hate 3betting 97s at all BUT you need to know your villains enough to know that they're usually going to fold and at 5nl I doubt that's the case at all.

I am very fond of the idea of 3betting 97s, but not OOP and not such a small amount.

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

What??? Only if he's 3betting everything from AA down to 97s but that obviously not the case.

Why would he favour 97s over A3s? A3 = more equity, so before he really gets to the SC and SG he would show better results by 3betting Some suited aces and a few low off suit aces.

So then if adds the SG, he should probably put in the SCs.. they dont playall that differently to suited gappers and before long we have a range of at least 15%.. throw in a couple more hands and we hit 20%

So overall you end up with this huge 3bet range against people who like to call.

THe idea is to 3bet your weaker hands as a bluff, but to pick the best of your weakest hands to do it with. I can think of a ton of weak hands that do better than 97s. So the only reason to have 97s in your 3bet range is because you have exausted the profitability of all stronger hands in this weak class.. I doubt that has happened.

Originally Posted by -Phil Ivey27

I am very fond of the idea of 3betting 97s, but not OOP and not such a small amount.

There is absolutely no point in doing this.

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

There is absolutely no point in doing this.

Fold equity, and if they do call you can rep a big hand IP, or you can hit the flop hard and you have a hand.

Originally Posted by -Phil Ivey27

Fold equity, and if they do call you can rep a big hand IP, or you can hit the flop hard and you have a hand.

You dont have enough FE to do this.

The single biggest mistake people make is to call.

Forums are not littered with HHs where people are saying you need to call more, the most common advice is that you need to fold more.

Therfore you are 3betting hands which, when called, rarely flop anything.

When you miss you have 9 high and this makes future aggression in the hand difficult.

Look at the 3 reasons to bet.

Worse can call: nothing worse than 9 high calls.

Better can fold: some better will fold but a lot of better hands will call. T9o has you dominated and 22 is ahead of you now.

Collect dead money: It depends on the position and tendencies of the opener, but remember people like to see flops.

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

You dont have enough FE to do this.

The single biggest mistake people make is to call.

Forums are not littered with HHs where people are saying you need to call more, the most common advice is that you need to fold more.

Therfore you are 3betting hands which, when called, rarely flop anything.

When you miss you have 9 high and this makes future aggression in the hand difficult.

Look at the 3 reasons to bet.

Worse can call: nothing worse than 9 high calls.

Better can fold: some better will fold but a lot of better hands will call. T9o has you dominated and 22 is ahead of you now.

Collect dead money: It depends on the position and tendencies of the opener, but remember people like to see flops.

Worse can call: We are 3betting light , where are moves are not really being based off of hand strength so that is not one of our primary concerns.

Better can fold: Better should fold if they have seen your image, of course we all know what should be done is not what is done and yes you are easily dominated by T9o and beat by 22 but when you 3bet with Ax higher Aces, that are bound to be there sometimes, dominate you (blocker or not) and you are also beat by 22.

Also, my 3bet is 7% so even though I 3bet with 97s sometimes, AXs sometimes too, that does not mean I am 3betting with 25% of my range. It is positional, situational, player dependant, image dependent, etc. you already know..

Originally Posted by -Phil Ivey27

Better can fold: Better should fold if they have seen your image

Your image is that of a loose 3better.

In a vacume you can bet ATC. But in normal play people will notice. You are 3betting hands like 97s and 85o so you are going to be 3betting a lot. Otherwise why would you 3bet 85o yet fold A3o? Why would you bluff with 85o yet fold A3o just to keep your 3bet stats down?

So in reality you are creating an image of exactly what you are.. a light 3 better. Because, hey, you are either 3betting a lot or making some wierd choices in what you fold just to keep those stats down!

Originally Posted by -Phil Ivey27

Also, my 3bet is 7% so even though I 3bet with 97s sometimes, AXs sometimes too, that does not mean I am 3betting with 25% of my range. It is positional, situational, player dependant, image dependent, etc. you already know..

Your OVERALL 3bet stat is 7% but when filtered positionally it should easily be 12%+

When I see a guy with a 3bet stat of 7% my first thought is to look at his 3betting by position.

I think what you need to do is to think about the difference between "any 2 cards" and "every 2 cards"

Whilst you know a situation is profitable to raise ATC, you also know that you cannot do this every single time so whilst you can play ATC you cant play ETC.

Therefore you need to decide what to play and what to fold. So the question becomes which are the strongest of the weakest playable hands? Rather than randomly playing a selection of hands from the "too weak to call with range" do you think you would see an increase in winrate by playing the same number of overall hands but making sure they were the strongest hands available in that weak range?

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

From nit to spewtard.

I was a marginal winner playing a nitty style at 2nl and so far a break even player at 5nl (although the sample is not huge). I slowly have come to the realization that playing my hole cards has made me predictable, exploitable and subject to swings in variance. When I realized that over 30k hands my win rate for 3betting was 305bb I decided to do it more. You're right that one of the big mistakes Micro players make is to call too much because their conditioned reflex is to call when in doubt instead of folding (or raising). Usually when they call a 3bet they get knocked out of their comfort zone and unless they connect to the flop they fold pretty easily. If villain is raising preflop x and I 3bet to 2.5x and they fold 80% of the time then I win 2x. If they call I need only continue when I flop some decent equity because even if I check/folded every time I only lose (.2*2.5x=.5x) so my net EV for 3betting and check/folding when they call is 1.5x. Since in most instances x=3.5bb then my profit per hand when 3betting is 5.25bb. That is essentially the same long term EV of AA. Of course alot of the time I am 3betting for value so I stand to flop a fair deal of equity and since I am creating a table image as a light 3bettor then I stand a better chance to get a call when I have AA/KK, which is a little nicer than the nit raising UTG with AA and collecting the blinds.

Now this is all a brave new world to me so I will obviously make some mistakes and make some poor choices of hand selection or situations but for every bad choice I make I make up for it with the correct ones. Soon I expect to settle down a little and use selective 3betting as a powerful tool to increase my winrate.

Does this really make me a spewtard?

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

Why would he favour 97s over A3s? A3 = more equity, so before he really gets to the SC and SG he would show better results by 3betting Some suited aces and a few low off suit aces.

So then if adds the SG, he should probably put in the SCs.. they dont playall that differently to suited gappers and before long we have a range of at least 15%.. throw in a couple more hands and we hit 20%

So overall you end up with this huge 3bet range against people who like to call.

THe idea is to 3bet your weaker hands as a bluff, but to pick the best of your weakest hands to do it with. I can think of a ton of weak hands that do better than 97s. So the only reason to have 97s in your 3bet range is because you have exausted the profitability of all stronger hands in this weak class.. I doubt that has happened.

Here you go!

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
SB: $2.64
BB: $3.00
UTG: $3.36
UTG+1: $4.81
MP: $4.00
Hero (MP+1): $6.49
LP: $5.00
CO: $6.10
BTN: $5.62
SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05
Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has A♠ 4♠
fold, fold, MP raises to $0.20, Hero raises to $0.50, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, MP calls $0.30
Flop: ($1.07, 2 players) 6♦ 9♣ 8♠
MP checks, Hero bets $0.50, fold
Hero wins $1.02

I am not 3betting every time I get 97s, nor every time I get A3s, it is situational and I make sure it does not look like I am 3betting a lot, so I will muck those A3s hands for 3 more rounds just to do it with 97s the 4th round.

Originally Posted by -Phil Ivey27

I am not 3betting every time I get 97s, nor every time I get A3s, it is situational and I make sure it does not look like I am 3betting a lot, so I will muck those A3s hands for 3 more rounds just to do it with 97s the 4th round.

You would achieve the same overall 3betting frequency if you just played the better hands.

I also hate getting involved with weak aces that can get you in real trouble sometimes.

Originally Posted by deuceswild222

I get to rep way more hands when I miss with 86s than A3s...

Surely when your repping a hand your hole cards don't matter ?

Do people really stick to specific cards to 3bet bluff with?

I think when the right spot presents itself you do it with ATC...rather than waiting for a good spot and a hand that plays ok post flop.

Originally Posted by CerberAcE

Do people really stick to specific cards to 3bet bluff with?

I think when the right spot presents itself you do it with ATC...rather than waiting for a good spot and a hand that plays ok post flop.

Stu explained this a lot better but you really should try to stick to a range and be mindful that you are not usually playing the hand in a vacuum. Every action that you take will affect your table image and if villain is using tracking software even the most clueless monkey will cotton on.

Plus, your light hands should be those that are seldom dominated by the strong hands villian is likely to call your 3bet with. 3betting in itself should make you a profit even if you auto fold if called. But, every once in a while, villian will call with AK, make top pair but you could flop a monster and stack him.

Originally Posted by CerberAcE

Do people really stick to specific cards to 3bet bluff with?

I think when the right spot presents itself you do it with ATC...rather than waiting for a good spot and a hand that plays ok post flop.

If you 3-bet someone as a bluff, you're going to be able to play 76s much more easily post-flop than K6 off. Obviously we want him to fold, but some percentage of the time he will call (and 4-bet). You can flop big draws and big made hands which you can play fast and generate FE. Also if the flop comes down KQ4 in a 3-bet pot, you fold your 76 easy, wtf am I doing now with K6? Call one bet? 2? Call flop fold turn or just fold flop? With 76s you're actually going to have flops you like a LOT more often and you're going to generate a lot more equity, both hand and folding.

Also an interesting part about bluffing with something like A4s compared to A7 as a bluff, is when you develop 3 and 4 betting dynamics later on. Obv this won't happen until you get to people who play a proper 3-bet game and can fold, but compare A5s to A5o.


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 54.585% 53.85% 00.74% 243423076 3328914.00 { JJ+, AKs, J9s, T8s, 97s, 86s, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, AKo }
Hand 1: 45.415% 44.68% 00.74% 201967352 3328914.00 { A5s }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 57.701% 56.95% 00.75% 772274724 10232784.00 { JJ+, AKs, J9s, T8s, 97s, 86s, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, AKo }
Hand 1: 42.299% 41.54% 00.75% 563404476 10232784.00 { A5o }

3bb is most "regs" win-rates.


The point I'm making there is by selecting hands with that little bit more equity for 3 and 4 bet bluffs makes a huge difference long term and will make your short term decisions easier.

Originally Posted by LuckyChippy

If you 3-bet someone as a bluff, you're going to be able to play 76s much more easily post-flop than K6 off. Obviously we want him to fold, but some percentage of the time he will call (and 4-bet). You can flop big draws and big made hands which you can play fast and generate FE. Also if the flop comes down KQ4 in a 3-bet pot, you fold your 76 easy, wtf am I doing now with K6? Call one bet? 2? Call flop fold turn or just fold flop? With 76s you're actually going to have flops you like a LOT more often and you're going to generate a lot more equity, both hand and folding.

Also an interesting part about bluffing with something like A4s compared to A7 as a bluff, is when you develop 3 and 4 betting dynamics later on. Obv this won't happen until you get to people who play a proper 3-bet game and can fold, but compare A5s to A5o.


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 54.585% 53.85% 00.74% 243423076 3328914.00 { JJ+, AKs, J9s, T8s, 97s, 86s, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, AKo }
Hand 1: 45.415% 44.68% 00.74% 201967352 3328914.00 { A5s }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 57.701% 56.95% 00.75% 772274724 10232784.00 { JJ+, AKs, J9s, T8s, 97s, 86s, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, AKo }
Hand 1: 42.299% 41.54% 00.75% 563404476 10232784.00 { A5o }

3bb is most "regs" win-rates.


The point I'm making there is by selecting hands with that little bit more equity for 3 and 4 bet bluffs makes a huge difference long term and will make your short term decisions easier.

Something to keep in mind tho is that the value of 3Bing gapped connectors, etc. isn't the equity that these hands have - we are clearly bluffing if we 3B 87s- the idea is to take hands that we cannot profitably call and turn it into a profitable hand when we 3B it. So 3Bing 67s on the button is actually pretty pointless - we can profitably call with 67s. Same with A4s, etc. If we have 96s however we don't have a profitable call and thus 3Bing and turning it into a +EV situation may be a preferrable option - and while 87s does flop better than 96s it doesn't flop that much better that it will overcome the fact that we are turning a neutral EV hand into a +EV hand (and it isn't like 87s flops that great in a 3B pot, where you are more looking to hit a TPTK type hand). Our 3B bluffing range is profitable if you are 3Bing a polarized range (which tends to be the case vs non-terrible players who will tend to 4B or fold oop and not peel with a wide range) because your range (or at least perceived range) should contain alot of good hands - most of the value of 3Bing the suited gaps comes from the fold equity generated by the strength of your range. It makes little sense to 3B 87s if you can profitably call it - the idea behind 3Bing light is that you take the very best of the bottom of your range (the best hands that you can't profitably call) and turn those hands from - or neutral EV to +EV. But you are right in that there are better hands to 3B light than K6o, especially if you aren't that great postflop.

Everyone seems to latch on to the reason why 3betting a hand like 96s or 85o is profitable in a vacume but ails to see why it isnt fitting their overall stratagy.

I started commenting on how wide someones 3betting range would nbeed to be for these types of hands to be in it and most people arent really picking up on that.

If you are 3betting these types of hands and all the other weak hands that are stronger than this 100% of the time in this situation, then fine.

However if you are 3 betting 96s or 85o with the intention (well you probably arent thinking that far ahead) but with the intention of folding a stronger hand next time this situation comes up just so you dont appear to be 3 beting all of the time then you are better off waiting for that stronger hand and folding the one you hold currently.

If you hold a hand in the 60th percentile then statistically speaking the next hand dealt will be stronger.

Why 3bet a weak hand knowing that next time this exact same situation arises you will likely be folding a stronger hand?

If your 3 betting range really is very wide then there isnt a problem, but when you are regularly folding better candidates just to balance your range, there is something fundamentally wrong with your 3betting strategy.

What sparked this off was the notion that you could be betting this wide range and hide the fact your range was wide. The resonse (although not so concisely) given was that the 3 bet stat was kept low by folding better hands in furure situations.

My point is that if you are thinking of 3 betting now as a steal but know now that you will be folding better hands in the same situation in the future.. wait for one of those better hands as you will increase your overall equity.

If you know now that you will be playing the same wide range the next time this situation comes up, continue as is.

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

Everyone seems to latch on to the reason why 3betting a hand like 96s or 85o is profitable in a vacume but ails to see why it isnt fitting their overall stratagy.

I started commenting on how wide someones 3betting range would nbeed to be for these types of hands to be in it and most people arent really picking up on that.

If you are 3betting these types of hands and all the other weak hands that are stronger than this 100% of the time in this situation, then fine.

However if you are 3 betting 96s or 85o with the intention (well you probably arent thinking that far ahead) but with the intention of folding a stronger hand next time this situation comes up just so you dont appear to be 3 beting all of the time then you are better off waiting for that stronger hand and folding the one you hold currently.

If you hold a hand in the 60th percentile then statistically speaking the next hand dealt will be stronger.

Why 3bet a weak hand knowing that next time this exact same situation arises you will likely be folding a stronger hand?

If your 3 betting range really is very wide then there isnt a problem, but when you are regularly folding better candidates just to balance your range, there is something fundamentally wrong with your 3betting strategy.

What sparked this off was the notion that you could be betting this wide range and hide the fact your range was wide. The resonse (although not so concisely) given was that the 3 bet stat was kept low by folding better hands in furure situations.

My point is that if you are thinking of 3 betting now as a steal but know now that you will be folding better hands in the same situation in the future.. wait for one of those better hands as you will increase your overall equity.

If you know now that you will be playing the same wide range the next time this situation comes up, continue as is.

What if you 3bet suited connectors, gappers small pocket pairs and little suited Aces only some of the time? In this way your 3bet% shows up on someone's HUD as a fairly low number and thus you may get more folds when you are 3bet/ bluffing (semi-bluffing).

E.g.: you only 3bet 7h6h but fold 7d6d, 7c6c, 7s6s to a raise. The chance of being dealt 76s is .003. If you only 3bet 1/4 of that you would only be adding .00075 to your 3bet range. You could pick 8 or 9 combos like this and add in a few sn pp combos of 22-77 (like pp's that are Club/Spades only) and it would only add about 1.1% to your 3bet range but these hands would be so well disguised that if your 3bet value range was something like 4.36% and your 3bet semi-bluff range was .0011 your total 3bet range would be 5.49%. With that 3bet percentage no one is going to assume you are a light 3bettor but the 1st time you go to a showdown with 7h6h on 543 board you will probably confuse an observant opponent so that when you 3bet KK you may get a lot of action.

Originally Posted by fx20736

What if you 3bet suited connectors, gappers small pocket pairs and little suited Aces only some of the time? In this way your 3bet% shows up on someone's HUD as a fairly low number and thus you may get more folds when you are 3bet/ bluffing (semi-bluffing).

it counts the number of times you have 3 bet and compares thet to the number of times you could have 3 bet.

Thats it

Why 3 bet light if you arent doing it all of the time?

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

it counts the number of times you have 3 bet and compares thet to the number of times you could have 3 bet.

Thats it

Why 3 bet light if you arent doing it all of the time?

Yes, but it doesn't show what percentage of the time you are bluffing.

If your 3bet value range was 99+ AQs+AKo that would be 4.36% If you added 8 specific suited combos of suited connectors or gappers and only the all black pocket pairs 22-77 you would only be adding 1.1% to your total range. Therefore if someone sees that yor 3bet range is 5.47% they would probably never guess that you were 3betting scs, gappers and small pocket pairs. I'm guessing they would assume you were 3betting some AQ/AJ/KQ type hands and thus might feel really good if you 3bet them with 76s and they call with AK and the board comes down A54 and they either donk bet or check/call and the turn is a 8 or 3. If you re-raise them on the turn you will at the least get 2 streets of value and if they cannot let go of TPTK you can stack them.

Originally Posted by fx20736

Yes, but it doesn't show what percentage of the time you are bluffing.

If your 3bet value range was 99+ AQs+AKo that would be 4.36% If you added 8 specific suited combos of suited connectors or gappers and only the all black pocket pairs 22-77 you would only be adding 1.1% to your total range. Therefore if someone sees that yor 3bet range is 5.47% they would probably never guess that you were 3betting scs, gappers and small pocket pairs. I'm guessing they would assume you were 3betting some AQ/AJ/KQ type hands and thus might feel really good if you 3bet them with 76s and they call with AK and the board comes down A54 and they either donk bet or check/call and the turn is a 8 or 3. If you re-raise them on the turn you will at the least get 2 streets of value and if they cannot let go of TPTK you can stack them.

Please answer the important question.

Why 3 bet light if you arent going to do it all of the time.

Why 3bet light now knowing you will fold a better candidate as a result?

Equity matters more in this situation at micros than it does at midstakes. The single biggest adustemt people will make to you 3betting is not to 4 bet bluff where your equity is irrellivent, they will instead call making your overall equity when 3betting light an important factor.


3 betting A3o is light, 3betting 85o is light but A3o has a ton more equity and contains a blocker. So if you are likely to fold A3o as a result of 3 betting 85o you should not bet 85o in the first place.

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

Please answer the important question.

Why 3 bet light if you arent going to do it all of the time.

I would do it to at first capitalize on a table image as a solid TAG with a reasonable 3bet range. Once I had a hand like this go to showdown it would confuse an opponent about my3bet range and would either get more action when I was 3betting for value or get a villain to not extract as much value from a good hand because they played cautiously as they had no idea what I 3bet them with.


Why 3bet light now knowing you will fold a better candidate as a result?

If I am only adding 1.1 % to 3bet range I am not folding any hand I would normally 3bet with. I think 3betting 76s would be better than AQ/AJ/KQ because your hand could easily be dominated.

Equity matters more in this situation at micros than it does at midstakes. The single biggest adustemt people will make to you 3betting is not to 4 bet bluff where your equity is irrellivent, they will instead call making your overall equity when 3betting light an important factor.


3 betting A3o is light, 3betting 85o is light but A3o has a ton more equity and contains a blocker. So if you are likely to fold A3o as a result of 3 betting 85o you should not bet 85o in the first place I would never dream of 3betting 85o or A3o. I'm talking suited connectors, weak suited Aces and small pocket pairs that have the ability to flop a ton of equity but are easy to get away from when I miss. .

The profit from 3betting comes mainly from folding. Even at the micros most players are folding to a 3bet 80% of the time or more. So when you 3bet 76s you will likely get folds 4 out of 5 times. Villain bets 3.5bb. You 3bet to 12bb. Villain folds 80% of the time so your EV is 3.5bb* .8= 2.8 (ignoring the blinds as rake). If you get called you have a chance to flop 2 pair, trips an OESD or a Flush Draw. I don't know what percentage you have of flopping one of these but I'm guessing it's around 20%. If you check/ folded everytime you missed you would lose ((12bb*.8)*.2)= 1.92. Therefore you are slightly plus EV when you 3bet, get folds 80% of the time and check/fold when you miss. Now all the times you make your straight, flush, full house add alot of profit.There's more math here and I am at work without access to Stove or PT3 but do you see my point?

Originally Posted by fx20736

The profit from 3betting comes mainly from folding. Even at the micros most players are folding to a 3bet 80% of the time or more. So when you 3bet 76s you will likely get folds 4 out of 5 times. Villain bets 3.5bb. You 3bet to 12bb. Villain folds 80% of the time so your EV is 3.5bb* .8= 2.8 (ignoring the blinds as rake). If you get called you have a chance to flop 2 pair, trips an OESD or a Flush Draw. I don't know what percentage you have of flopping one of these but I'm guessing it's around 20%. If you check/ folded everytime you missed you would lose ((12bb*.8)*.2)= 1.92. Therefore you are slightly plus EV when you 3bet, get folds 80% of the time and check/fold when you miss. Now all the times you make your straight, flush, full house add alot of profit.There's more math here and I am at work withoutr access to Stove or PT3 but do you see my point?

You are not answering the question posed you are answering a different question.

The question is again

Why 3 bet light if you arent going to do it all of the time?

We arent talking about folding big value hands we are talking about why you will raise 76s some times but not all times in the same situation and why you may fold hands like A3o as a result of raising hands like 76s when A3o has better equity.

Originally Posted by Stu_Ungar

You are not answering the question posed you are answering a different question.

The question is again

Why 3 bet light if you arent going to do it all of the time?

We arent talking about folding big value hands we are talking about why you will raise 76s some times but not all times in the same situation and why you may fold hands like A3o as a result of raising hands like 76s when A3o has better equity.

I did answer:

I would do it to at first capitalize on a table image as a solid TAG with a reasonable 3bet range. Once I had a hand like this go to showdown it would confuse an opponent about my3bet range and would either get more action when I was 3betting for value or get a villain to not extract as much value from a good hand because they played cautiously as they had no idea what I 3bet them with.

Originally Posted by fx20736

I did answer:

I would do it to at first capitalize on a table image as a solid TAG with a reasonable 3bet range. Once I had a hand like this go to showdown it would confuse an opponent about my3bet range and would either get more action when I was 3betting for value or get a villain to not extract as much value from a good hand because they played cautiously as they had no idea what I 3bet them with.

Then how are you adding only 1.1% to your 3bet range whilst at the same time 3betting All SCs and weak aces?