You cannot muck

I would love peoples opinion on this because its something that's 'apparantely' (according to ftp) a matter of peoples opinion.

When im watching poker on tv and for eg. player 1 bets 1k on the river and player 2 calls and loses...now if player 2 does not want to show his losing hand, he mucks it....yes? So the players cannot find out what player 2 had until they watch the game back after its finished. Now this is done all the time both online and on tv.
However...On ftp, if your opponent/s muck there losing hand, you can immediately click last hand history and see what it was that they mucked. I cannot understand the reason for this, i believe that unless you have paid to see the hand (called a bet) then you do not have the right to see the cards. I mean..seriously, what the hell is the point in mucking my hand if they can just click hand history and see the cards anyway!?! There is no point what so ever, is they?

I emailed ftp actually thinking this was a mistake in the software perhaps, they replied ensuring me this is the normal and that feedback has been great.
Ok i said, but i think its daft because i still cant think why to muck when its there infront of them on hand history...try it.

What ya'll think?

I muck everything, if the program doesn't make me show. If others want to go into HH and check, so be it. (I do, if I want to know --- which I usually do.) I don't leave myself the option to show -- it just slows everything down. And reduces the temptation to show a bluff or the nuts --- both of which can tell the other players a little something about me, if they are savvy.

Oh, I never bluff. That was just a hypothetical!

I may be wrong but I believe in live play if you would like to see your opponent's losing hand you can, they have to show if you ask. This is pretty uncommon, but yeah I don't know for sure.

That is also what ftp said in there email (more or less), ive never realised though, that they have to if you ask...must be very uncommon lol
The amount of info i get about other players by been able to see their mucked hands is massive, but i suppose its evened out by the fact that its open to all. You learn something new everyday.

I think you're getting confused. If I call your river bet and you show and your hand beats mine, I muck and you can see my hand. However if I fold on the flop then you can't see what I mucked.

No, I think that is exactly what the OP meant, river muck in live vs. online.

Is there a difference?
I have had the same question, if cjatud2012 is correct, I may be doing this in future... cos I thought you had to pay to see the hand.

When all action in a hand is complete (even if no betting happens after the river is dealt) then any player that was dealt into that hand originally may request to see any hand that was live at the end of the action. The rule is in place to prevent collusion. However, if a player constantly asks to see hands just because they can, their privledge of requesting to see mucked hands may be taken away by the poker room manager in order to keep the game moving at a better pace.

There is no paying to see the hand when the hand has already went to showdown, all the money is in and the bets called. From my understanding cjatud2012 is correct, though in live play it is frowned upon. I believe anybody dealt in the hand could ask to see the mucked losing cards, basically asking for someone to show mucked cards is like accusing them of collusion (like they were mucking the better hand). At least thats my understanding of the rule and why its frowned upon. Plus doing this excessively would slow a game down.

hehe...come on, im not that bad lol.

i did also get told by ftp that it is about collusion and it is frowned upon, but obviously you can frown all ya want online...

Thanks for comments card chatters

I saw it happen once in live play at casino. Playing 1/2$ Limit and older gentleman and young guy were capping every street. River bought possible flush and sure enough young guy won with Flush and older gentleman mucked his hand.

Young guy asked to see mucked cards, table all looks at him (like why... you wanna rub it in) old gent picks up his cards and throws them accross the table at young guy. we all saw pocket Aces.

Old gent was a regular at casino and young guy was soon moved to another table.

I think it's considered unsportsmanship and a lack of ettiquette (cant find the right word)

and I believe only the players involved in the hand may ask to see mucked Hand.

Online if you don't know what a HH is you need more help.

it doesnt matter who paid or who is in the hand, if two or more people go to show down and 1 person mucks, anyone, live or online, can ask to see or look at the persons mucked hand...because it was a SHOW down!

tony g did his on the big game one night, and the table all look down on him for ask the question. I'm trying to find the video on it and will post it when i find it

Its considered poor etiquette to ask to see them... however if you just ask the player what they had they'll probably show you

Since I didn't see anyone write it, I figured I would throw in my .02c, when 2 or more players make it to the river, and make the final bets/ call it's called a paid hand. When a hand is paid for on the river anyone in a live cash game sitting at the table can ask to see it, and in online poker it will always be in the HH- end thred.

Oh good thing I found this thread!

I've played live only once and found the casino did not follow the ettiquete (sp?) that I thought they would... I did not know I could ask to see those cards.

The reason why I post is cause this happened to me IRL.

Guy raises (this limit poker cause No Limit apparently is illegal in Colorado wtf??) I re-raise him all in.

He calls, and I flip over my AK. He keeps his hole cards covered! I have to sit through the all of the cards with the only one showing my hand.

I ended up embarassing the shiz out of my self as a King showed up on the flop and I comment how that must of helped me. Turns out he flopped the third ten...

So I'm sitting there lookin the fool when he finally turns his hole cards on after the river...

I would've asked to flip them on right off the bat seeing as no matter what I get to see those cards...

thanks guys

Yep, you are fully entitled to see a mucked hand at showdown, but it is considered extremly poor form, especially if you have just stacked someone. Its something that I have never done, but would only consider it if I suspected collusion.

We have one particular guy at our card club that insists on it, if he takes longer than 30 seconds on any hand clock is called on him anymore. He is pretty much hated.

That was more of a slow roll that a "show your hand" situation. In most cash games, if a player is all in, you are not required to show your hand right away, even though it is proper consideration to do so. You could have asked, but that is more of a "house rule". He was more of an a$$ to slow roll you.

Hold on to the KARMA factor. THat'll bite him eventually, and if you see him often, maybe it'll be you.

I completely misread your OP, I apologise

^ this.

I suspect the reason some sites automatically show the cards in the hand replayer is because the alternative is having a sequence after every showdown where players decide whether or not they want to muck and then their opponents decide whether they want to have the hand shown anyway.

Given the amount of time that would waste I can see why they've gone for a "show everything all the time" policy. And it's the same for everyone so nobody is disadvantaged in any way.