What are the benefits of Multi-tabling?

I wonder about this subject. Multi-tabling is said to be a very profitable but mundane task. Many say that those who do so do not play for the love of the game and only for money. Personally I have tried it and it doesnt work for me. I'm not that great at multi-tasking I guess. I do okay with 2 but no more. Basically this thread is to propose any thoughts about the pros and cons of multi-tabling. Everyone's dying to hear your thoughts, please comment so that we can start a discussion. I am intreagued to know people opinions on this matter, it will help me personally to make a decision on whether I want to do it or not.

1. increased win rate despite a drop in profitability. If you play one table and win 6bb/100, but your win rate drops to 4bb/100 when playing two tables, you are still making more money overall (4 x 2 =8, vs. 6).

2. helps some people not succumb to boredom and consequently play more hands than they should on one table. Two tables = playing twice as many hand overall, but still playing tight enough on the individual tables.

I see, good way to look at it

Virtually everybody who plays 4+ tables does it for the money.

I play full ring at the moment, and four tables would be enough to stop me from getting bored, but I play eight because 480 hands per hour mean a considerable increase in profit compared to 240 hands.

Unfortunatley I find it hard to concentrate with more than 2 tables. i would like to do it but I just suck at multi-tasking I guess.

More money for me at the single table I am playing because multi-tabling people are making more mistakes.

The major problem you have to deal with when you start down that multi-tabling road is that with every table you add on your game needs to tighten up and you eventually loose a great deal of reads because your too focused on acting in a timely manner. You will increase your profits over-all because your seeing more hands, but you can't play the same as you will when your play one or two tables.

Another major downside to multi-tabling is that you opponents get a big in-sight into your playing style with a quick search. If an opponent knows you are multi-tabling he's likely going to play much more aggressively against you since he knows you've saddled yourself with a very tight playing style.

I use to 9-table and did okay with it, but it was primarily for the money. Currently I have dropped back to 6-tabling it and although it still sounds like
a lot, it is a bit easier and I have a little more flexibility to make some moves here and there.

I can barely keep up with 4 tables, lol. I would like to see a benefit in multi-tabling but the games variance just always seems to break me even.

Bodog only allows you to play three tables at the same time, so that's what I've been doing. I don't feel too overextended.

I am primarily a tournament player. I usually play two tournies at a time. I find that, for me at least, this gives me the right balance.

I can still follow the games and make notes on the opponents, and I don`t have long periods of inactivity during which my attention wanders. I find I play better as a result.

i've been doing some multi-tabling lately and have found it to be quite profitable, even after losing my money on 2 of the tables, I tripled on the others which nearly doubled my money.

That's the other thing I like about it, it decreases variance. Well not really, it just makes the long run come faster, so if a bad run lasts like 5k hands, those 5k hands go by a lot faster and in a single session you're more likely to make money. This is of course a direct extension from the fact that you're playing more hands. If in the long run you make money, multi-tabling is profitable because the long run comes faster. You definitely lose profitability playing multiple tables, but for example I 9-table, I don't think I could have 9 times my profit rate if I just played 1 table. So for me I think it's profitable. Time can only tell (see signature)

i can't play 12 tables. 4 tables is good for me now. 12 too much i do make a lot of money and lose some and ended up sit out

The whole idea of multi tabling is to increase $1/100 while that may mean you decrease you BB/100 it is more profitable $ wise to play more tables.

If your in it for the money definately need to multi table, if you play for fun then play whatever suits you.

Personally i find tourneys much harder to multi-table because of the ever changing conditions.

Nice topic EEK!

I also have a problem multi tabling as I seem to loose track of the game and who's who at the table, reads go for a loop and I end up in painful situations. i.e. Top Pair Good Kicker against straight draw board and villain goes all in, ummm was he the maniac or the nit?

I agree with all here and if you can multi table it can be very profitable however I battle with it. My solution is to play a cash game and a SNG. While the SNG starts slow, I focus on the cash game and when the blinds start getting high on the SNG I switch focus and tighten up on the cash game. This has the added benefit of changing your image at the cash game and when you switch your focus back to it and loosen up the bucks roll in (well sometimes)

I'll give a little tip I use religiously when I'm Multi-tabling that seems so obvious but you tend to over-look it in lieu of keeping your focus on acting in a timely manner.

When your multi-tabling keep in the back of your mind the Minimum and Maximum that you are willing to loose at a table before your ready to get out. Now, what I mean by that is, establish a Maximum amount you are willing to loose in order to create the threshold that allows you to tell whether you are at a loosing table. The Minimum amount is to alert you in order to red-flag that table so that you can make a mental note to keep tabs on that table for the next few hands.

The point here is that when you multi-table you will tend to loose touch with tables occasionally (because you'll tend to start acting on autopilot) and if those tables are loosing tables your simply wasting time and money. You never want to sit at a loosing table, there is no point to sitting at a table when you are bleeding off chips. Don't get caught up in 'Slot-Machine' mentality thinking - I've already invested so much at this table already, it's just a matter of time before I get paid off. Likewise, don't feel like you need to get your money back from that Donk that sucked out on you 20 hads earlier.

NO - Get up and leave! If you play enough, you'll see that Donk again and if you are the better player you'll get your money back.

I generally set a Minimum amount at 10% of what I set down with and a Maximum amount at 15%. If my table stack drop to around 10%, I'll wait till I'm on the Button and de-select the Auto Post option so that by the time the BB comes back to me, if I haven't improved I leave. On that same note, if I drop to or below 15%, I'll simply get up and leave.

Whether your loosing because of variance, poor table image or that your just not catching cards - the point is your not winning. There are too many tables out there, get out of the ones that are hurting you and get into the ones that help you.

NuRelic

You shouldnt leave a table based the amount of money you have won or lost. You should leave it based on you assement of the other players at the table. If they are all TAG's then its probably better to leave, if the are calling stations then definately stay.

Leaving when you loose 15% of you buy-in is ridiculous as most big pots are your whole buy-in or close to it and even then you should only consider leaving if you 1) sucked out. 2)Now have more than 10% of your total roll at the table. If your opponent sucked out then rebuy and wait for the chance when you get a big hand to win you money back because in the long run he cant win if he always goes in behind against you.

I';ve never heard of that one before, "If you sucked out, then leave the table". Where did that come from or is that due to the fact that you may be viewed upon as a suckout king. I was just interested in that as it doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me.

i was so dizzy when i played 4 sit n gos at once one time i wanted to puke when i was done

it means one of two things:

1) You are on tilt and got lucky, therefore leaving the table and ending the session is best decision for you.

2) Your money is going in behind so therefore you either got coolered or the other players are better than you. Coolering usually pisses me of and may cause tilt, while playing against better players than yourself is just bad game selection ad a road to going broke.

If you are playing 1 or 2 tables (3 or 4 for players who can process more info faster) I would agree with your sentiment. But we're talking about multi-tabling where you are purposefully handicapping yourself. When you are managing multiple tables; your ability to make moves, make accurate reads and keep you finger on the ebb and flow of a table has been compromised. As result, you cannot play at the same level as you can with fewer tables. Reading your opponents to determine whether they are TAG's or Calling Stations can be hard but is tremendously difficult when multi-tabling (to say the least). Now using an application such as Poke Ace HUD will help, but even then your only able to get a quick glance at the numbers for a minimum amount of insight as to you opponents intention as to why he acted the way he did before you have to act.

It's only ridiculous if you have all your weapons available to you. When you are multi-tabling you don't, and that's self inflicted. If you multi-table and continue to play the same way you do with one table you are either (1) going to loose money in the long run because you'll routinely find yourself overlooking important bits of information you need to make that big lay-down or (2) a BOT player. In regards to 'big pots' equaling your buy-in or close to it, you need to remember that when you get involved in one of those hands you generally want to hold a monster and when that happens you'll want to be maxed out with your chip stack. If you continue to stay at a loosing table while bleeding off chips your not going to be able to maximize your profits on those kind of hands.

As far as getting lucky ... it happens. I find I'm almost always ahead in a hand that I opt to get involved with, but occasionally I make a misread because an opponent gambles by not making a protection bet or an opponent slow plays to represent a weaker hand to create a well camouflaged trap. But, I almost never suck out as a result of tilt. Evidently we have very different playing styles.

As for your second point, assuming that the only reason you suck out is because you were cooled or that the other players are better is just not a good overall rationalization. There are other reason for sucking out but, in any event, leaving when you gain a chip advantage on your opponents is what's really ridiculous.


Again, this logic is somewhat sound if you have your full arsenal at your disposal, but when you are multi-tabling you don't. So the logic you are sharing there is flawed. But while I am here I'll add that rebuying on a table where you have just been sucked out on is generally not a good idea because (1) your table image has been impaired, (2) you are likely to be on tilt and (3) your opponents will know you are likely to be on tilt and will attack you accordingly. Remaining at a table after being sucked out on is akin to putting a big Bulls-eye on your back more often then not.

I think the problem here is that you took my statement and applied it to your standard game where you are playing one or two tables max. Obviously that statement doesn't fit in a regular game unless you are a Tight Passive player (I don't believe either one of us would fit that category). If you re-think it in terms of multi-tabling and the handicap that you are forced to play under as result I think you'll understand what I was getting at. If not, then I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

NuRelic

The handicap of multi-tabling will be greater if you lack the capacity to process information quickly. If you can process lots of information quickly then multi-tabling is extremly benifical $ wise(refer to AG's post).

I understand that what you are meaning is the amount of info you can have at any particular time. That is why multi-tablers use as many of the tools available to them as posssible. They use PAHud, Poker Tracker, Poker assistant etc. These tools effectively enable them to watch whats going on at a table while not actually physically watching it.

In my expierence if you use a good PAHud layout, a quick glance at the numbers is all it takes to figure out wether villian is TAG, LAG or whatever. Infact in pokertracker you can assign players a player icon, which is where you give them an icon relating to their playing style based on the actual statistics of their play. This method is probably more sound than the method of most(gross generalisation here) single tablers who simply see that a player is raising alot of hands and therefore assign him a LAG stlye.
An example of this is a player who raises 2/3 hands at a 6max table preflop, but once the flop hits he is ver nitiesh and only plays top 2 pair or better and TPTK folding all other hands. This player may appear LAG because of his high pf aggression factor, whilst he is more along the Loos-passive because he is very weak/selective post flop, and generally wins most showdowns he see's. Using PT stats, which almost no person is able to pick up at whilst single tabling without the aid of a computer program, you could then assign an icon to this playr with a description of something like LG/TP, which means Loose-aggressive preflop/Tight aggressive postflop. So from a glance you would know that you can often take posts down with postflop aggression against this player and if he shows an interest postflop to stay well away.

So you are saying that if i play TAG at one table, then i shift to playing 6 tables and still play tag with the same VPIP and Aggression factor then i am going to loose money no matter what or alternatively be incredibly easy to read?

To be incredibly easy to read a plyer needs to have a large amount of hands played against me to be able to make very good reads and his reads will very very rarely be absolute with leaves a margin of human error. He also needs to be a good player who pays close attenetion to every single opponent all the time. Therefore unless you play regularly at the same stakes and with the same people then it is unlikely that you will have anyone who can read easily unless you have some massive tell like typing you hole cards into the chatbox at the start of every hand and never lying about them.

To avoid routinely over looking bits of information whilst multi-tabling you simply need to play in position alot more unless you have very good cards. By being in position ie last to act, you get the maximum amount of information availiable to you, and unless it some miniscule tell then it is rare that a good multi-tabler will overlook the information given as they can process the information given faster therefore allowing them to play more tables.

I guess what im trying to say is that multi-tablers have the ability to process the information given at a faster rate than single tablers(whilst i am not sayin single tablers dont have that ability, they just dont utilize it by multi-tabling). The faster your ability to process the information given the more tables you can handle playing whilst still managing to play profitably and play well.

The whole definition of tilt is playing emotionally and badly. What you are saying here is that when you tilt you are usually putting your money in ahead? There that wouldnt be tilt right?

The only way a big chipstack helps you in a cashgame is to add to the implied odds against another big chipstack. The cons of having a big chipstack IMO out weigh the pros. Risking a high % of your BR in one hand is effectively bad BR management, im not talking about just doubling your original buy-in im refering to have 3-5x the original buyin at one table.

in reply to point 1) True
2) Not true, avoiding tilt is the key here, a good player shouldt tilt on a bad beat unless it was like a 1 outer or something.(well thats it usually takes for me to tilt).
3) Therefore if your not on tilt then you can utilize their over aggression towards you and make more money than if you went to a different table where they wernt "attacking" you.

my regular game is 16tabling $25NL. i am TAG my VPIP is 12 and agression factor is 4. Preflop raise is 8.

agree to disagree looks likely. Yet its still fun to have these debates.

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Originally Posted by Munchrs NuRelic:If you are playing 1 or 2 tables (3 or 4 for players who can process more info faster) I would agree with your sentiment. But we're talking about multi-tabling where you are purposefully handicapping yourself.

First let me say that I don’t disagree with you on most of you points, however this thread was created by someone asking the benefits of multi-tabling, so we can assume that he’s probably a novice multi-tabler and asking for his benefit. My answers are in that line of thought; with the the novice multi-table in mind. As result, they (these novice players) may or may not have the poker tools you mentioned available (using them is higly favorable, BTW), but even if he does have them that does not equate to him having mastered those programs. Even so, not all player (especially good one) will always play the same style of game. You’ve got to change gears in order to throw off your opponents and when that happens, those applications do little to help you. If you playing one table its easier to catch these situation, but with each table you add, you increase the difficulty of catching it. We should, at least, be able to agree on that.

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Originally Posted by Munchrs NuRelic: When you are managing multiple tables; your ability to make moves, make accurate reads and keep you finger on the ebb and flow of a table has been compromised. As result, you cannot play at the same level as you can with fewer tables. Reading your opponents to determine whether they are TAG's or Calling Stations can be hard but is tremendously difficult when multi-tabling (to say the least). Now using an application such as Poke Ace HUD will help, but even then your only able to get a quick glance at the numbers for a minimum amount of insight as to you opponents intention as to why he acted the way he did before you have to act.

Again, we’re not far apart because you can even fine tune the range of stats for each icon. But as with my opening statement in this post, this doesn’t really help if a play is changing gears and in regards to a novice multi-tabler, this is generally not as easy as you imply. Think of it like this, we are seeing in this thread that can handle no more than 4 tables, others can handle 9 and still others (like the ignate moreon from last years WSOP Main Event please don’t remind me of his name) 30 some-odd tables. Likewise, not everyone will be as proficient with the stats from those applications.

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Originally Posted by Munchrs NuRelic:If you multi-table and continue to play the same way you do with one table you are either (1) going to loose money in the long run because you'll routinely find yourself overlooking important bits of information you need to make that big lay-down or (2) a BOT player.

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Originally Posted by Munchrs Munchrs:So you are saying that if i play TAG at one table, then i shift to playing 6 tables and still play tag with the same VPIP and Aggression factor then i am going to loose money no matter what or alternatively be incredibly easy to read?

Maybe not you, you seem to be more in-tune with what’s going on, but for the near over-whelming masses of other multi-tablers – YES. I see it every day and if you are half as observant as you profess to be, then you see it too. Please don’t take my words as meaning that I’m attacking you personally (I’m really not), rather I speaking to the mass of players who think they are much better than they actually are and routinely multi-table. The problem here is that your taking a defensive stance to defend yourself by lumping yourself in with all multi-tablers and you may not belong there.
I’m not sure where the, “…i am going to loose money no matter what or alternatively be incredibly easy to read?” statement comes into play. It really doesn’t jive with what I said but I stand by the idea that you cannot play at the same level when multi-tabling as you can with one table and that you will, “…routinely find yourself overlooking important bits of information you need to make that big lay-down…”

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Originally Posted by Munchrs Munchrs continues:To be incredibly easy to read a plyer needs to have a large amount of hands played against me to be able to make very good reads and his reads will very very rarely be absolute with leaves a margin of human error. He also needs to be a good player who pays close attenetion to every single opponent all the time. Therefore unless you play regularly at the same stakes and with the same people then it is unlikely that you will have anyone who can read easily unless you have some massive tell like typing you hole cards into the chatbox at the start of every hand and never lying about them.

For most of the players I play against I have, “…a large amount of hands…” in my history files, but that’s the masses I was talking about. This is why I said earlier that your talking this personally, because most players tend to, “…you play regularly at the same stakes and with the same people…” and you obviously don’t fall into that category.

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Originally Posted by Munchrs Munchrs continues:To avoid routinely over looking bits of information whilst multi-tabling you simply need to play in position alot more unless you have very good cards. By being in position ie last to act, you get the maximum amount of information availiable to you, and unless it some miniscule tell then it is rare that a good multi-tabler will overlook the information given as they can process the information given faster therefore allowing them to play more tables.

In the opening line of this paragraph you prove my point when you say, “…you simply need to play in position alot more…” WHY?! Seriously, if you can play at the same level on multiple tables as you can with one table then why would you play in position a lot more? Because you know you are handicapped and as such you’ve got to tightened up.

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Originally Posted by Munchrs Munchrs continues:I guess what im trying to say is that multi-tablers have the ability to process the information given at a faster rate than single tablers(whilst i am not sayin single tablers dont have that ability, they just dont utilize it by multi-tabling). The faster your ability to process the information given the more tables you can handle playing whilst still managing to play profitably and play well.

Agreed with one caveat:GOOD multi-tablers have the ability to process the information given at a faster rate. But even then they are still forced to tighten up because there is a greater chance for human error and playing tight helps reduce that error.

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Originally Posted by Munchrs NuRelic:But, I almost never suck out as a result of tilt.

I know this is going to sound arrogant but I really don’t play with much emotion anymore. I use too even as I knew it messed up my game. So in an effort to get rid of it, I dropped down in my levels and made a concerted effort to stop allowing my emotions to surface. It really helped, I am much more in control now and my emotional roller coaster is much more flat-lined now. As far as putting my money in ahead, I put my money in when I believe I am ahead and only so much as to keep the odds against my opponent(s) or to obtain the maximum amount of value I believe I can obtain. If I am wrong I exit the table and move on. If that doesn’t answer your question I’d need you to rephrase it.

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Originally Posted by Munchrs NuRelic:leaving when you gain a chip advantage on your opponents is what's really ridiculous.

If that’s the case, then you wouldn’t get involved in any big pots. Seriously man, this statement makes no sense! If you are getting involved in a big pot it should be because you believe you have the best hand or you’ve got fantastic odds to draw to a better hand. As such, you should want to maxamize your profits and the most effective way of doing that is to have plenty of chips to invest. But this is looking like we just have a different philosophy on the subject and from what your saying it appears that while you don’t have a minimum amount you are willing to lose at a table, you do have a maximum amount that you are willing to win before you leave. I know it’s a paraphrase of what you said but that is the way it reads.

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Originally Posted by Munchrs NuRelic:Again, this logic is somewhat sound if you have your full arsenal at your disposal, but when you are multi-tabling you don't. So the logic you are sharing there is flawed. But while I am here I'll add that rebuying on a table where you have just been sucked out on is generally not a good idea because (1) your table image has been impaired, (2) you are likely to be on tilt and (3) your opponents will know you are likely to be on tilt and will attack you accordingly. Remaining at a table after being sucked out on is akin to putting a big Bulls-eye on your back more often then not.

Again, we’re just gonna have to disagree because I feel that what I said was very sound. You are likely (but not guaranteed) to be on tilt. Moreover, this is one of the reason I don’t play with a lot of emotion, because I remove myself from situations where I might get sucked in. I’ve found that if I’m losing it’s much easier to find tables where I can win. It’s pretty simplistic, but it works.

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Originally Posted by Munchrs NuRelic:I think the problem here is that you took my statement and applied it to your standard game where you are playing one or two tables max. Obviously that statement doesn't fit in a regular game unless you are a Tight Passive player (I don't believe either one of us would fit that category). If you re-think it in terms of multi-tabling and the handicap that you are forced to play under as result I think you'll understand what I was getting at. If not, then I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by Munchrs Munchrs:my regular game is 16tabling $25NL. i am TAG my VPIP is 12 and agression factor is 4. Preflop raise is 8. agree to disagree looks likely. Yet its still fun to have these debates.

I guess we will have to disagree, but as I pointed out earlier even as you multi-table 16 tables, you have tightened up. You play position more often than not (as pointed out in your own words) and you are hesitant to get involved in big pots (again, paraphrased from your own words). I don’t think it’s outlandish or cowardly to say that when you multi-table you are forced to tighten up. If nothing else, the time restraints of acting in the available time force you to make very quick assessments and with each table added the inevitability of human error increases. All I’m saying is that in an effort to accommodate for this increase in human error, the average multi-tabler is force to tighten up and alter their standard game play.

NuRelic