Ultimate Bet Cheating

I noticed that you guys offer tourneys on Ultimate Bet which is just extremely disturbing to me. You are essentially endorsing a site which has not only allowed a glitch in the system where there were almost 100 super-users, but a site that then lied about that not taking place and to this day are not being very honest at all about what happened, and then on top of all that has had problems shipping the pot to the player with the worse hand. Hopefully it's ok if I post this link to a 2p2 thread that goes into more details. People need to know that the cheating scandal is not over and that Ultimate Bet's new management has NOT been that much better. I don't know how the deal between Cardschat and UB works and whether there's money involved for promoting them but I just think endorsing them in any way is dishonest unless you have proof that other people don't about the nature of their management and the way they handle the money of their customers. They essentially scammed a ton of people and attempted to lie about it to save themselves money. If Jason Ho tried to pay you to endorse his coaching, would you do that too? Hopefully whoever manages these issues on this site can think again about their choice to endorse a site that has shown extremely dishonest business practices in the past and has not really demonstrated that they have changed.

Here is the thread: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...counts-712287/

super old glitch...if you dont wanna play in the freerolls CC offers at UB than thats your opinion but lots of ppl on this site like UB ..especially since they updated it a couple months back. ive got no problem with it

Did you even read the 2p2 thread? People were cheated out of money and still haven't been paid back yet. They lie/mislead people about money stolen from them and with bugs in their software that can't even ship the pot the right way. Yet because you like it you continue to play there? You should contact Jason Ho, I heard he's a decent coach and he's changed since he got caught scamming.

I read it. I recommend UB to anybody who likes money. It is extremely fishy and the support has been good and cheques come on time and the software is not too tilting. The bottom line is profits and I like money.

You don't have a problem with the kahnawake gaming commission and ub covering up the names of the cheaters? I find that hard to fathom.

I skimmed the thread. Is there an allegation that the security holes still exist?

I'm not asking about whether the management is effective/good/honest, nor whether UB should be a site of choice for anyone, nor excusing/justifying anything - but I'm not clear on whether there are allegations of superuser cheating after the new management team took over (yes, I caught that some sn changes were made post new mgmt)?

Yes, I think there is some evidence that something is still going on but I am not too sure about it.

i started playing u.b by signing up to another website and getting a free $50 for doing so, i turned that $50 into $1800 with a $750 win in a tournment and the rest .50 $1 ohama pot limit, after playing for ages i went into the casino games for a nosey and was just bring my whole balance to the tables as i changed games, but then something went wrong, a error msg came up and all my balance had been wiped, and if i went into any other casino game it said that it was a error, i tried emailing support and all i got was automated msg's back which was no help, but finally after i rang them and talked to some1 in casino department it was sorted after 5 days, in the process of cashing most of it out now, but i certainly didnt find them helpfull

Is this why I can't get away from bad beats?

if you don't like it, don't play in the events, or indeed at UB at all. that's by far the best method of protest. it's quite sad that even after such an event that UB is able to still run with decent traffic, but I suppose the majority of players there are either people who know nothing about it because they don't know poker forums exist, or people who don't care because there's profit to be had from the bad players there. i'm not going to deride anyone but it's kinda sad that people who know all about the scandal still play there and just feeds the notion that your average person has that poker players are mercenary sociopaths.

i uninstalled UB soon after the scandal broke and haven't touched it since because i'm cool like that.

This was July 08 is it still happening?
Also how much money are we talking about? anyone know?

I was not aware of the UB scandal until after I dl'd the software and had won about $2000 on UB. Once I learned of the scandal, I did my research on their gaming commission and their new management. I made the decision that I would continue playing there since there were numerous positive changes to the software, security, and management after the scandal. I have not had a single issue since then. I prefer the site because of the smaller tourney fields that offer decent guarunteed prize pools, and the competition is soft. Like I said, never had an issue with the site.

BTW, did anyone read about the collusion that brought down Isuldir on FT? Why is there no uproar about that? Essentially the same thing happened on a smaller scale, and Isuldir was never reimbursed. At least UB reimbursed their players. All things relative, there is a risk of this happening anywhere, and I am satisfied with how UB handled the situation.

I don't want to derail this thread, it's about the UB issue - but above is too strong for my taste. As far as I know, Brian Townsend admitted to datamining hands on Isildur, which is against the Terms and Conditions of FT, and was suspended as a result for some period of time - whether that's sufficient punishment, I won't pass judgement on.

The "collusion" aspect is due to the fact that Towsend and two other players discussed strategies for playing Isildur prior to the matches where Townsend and (shoot, forgot his name, the guy who won over $4M) cleaned Isildur's clock - to my knowledge, this is all that was substantiated, there were rumors that they shared hand histories as well, or that they were ghosting each other, but this wasn't substantiated as far as I understand. Discussing how to beat a specific player is not against any terms and conditions, and is a common practice.

I haven't kept up with this, so my info may be out of date or incorrect - but that was my understanding when the event was about a week or two old.

The UB issue is substantial, the Isildur thing is nothing like the superuser accounts being able to see players' hole cards - whether FT is culpable in the Isildur thing at all depends on the fact that Townsend is a red pro, not on their security, software, or other business practices - even comparing the two situations is a mistake imo.

^^^Agree with sly on the above.

We did make changes here after the scandal - removed banners, etc. But we have members who still wanted to keep the CC Ultimatebet private games going so we have continued with them.

I personally still play in those games at Ultimatebet but don't play anything else there. I have not read anything that convinces me that there is still anything going on there - and it wouldn't impact our private games anyway.

I don't really have to debate with myself about whether on not to play anything else there because I can't get rakeback there anyway making it a moot point.

Yes, this thread is about the UB scandal, which happened 2 years ago. Since that time, UB is under new ownership. The users who were involved were banned with the possibility of prosecution (I haven't followed whether this has been pursued or not). The site itself has increased security and updated the software. A lot has happened since this scandal to improve the quality, security, and earn back the trust of the users on the site.

My point in bringing up the Isildur issue wasn't to decry Full Tilt. I play there. My point was that the possibility of these issues taking place exists on any online poker site. It is part of the inherent risk of playing. Knowing that, I don't know a whole lot of us that have made the decision to stop playing. It's all "buyer beware". But i'm not gonna run and tuck my tail between my legs because something bad happened on a site. PS has had pots shipped to the wrong player. Full Tilt has not shown hole cards. So, software issues exist on almost all sites. So long as the site rectifies the problem, you've gotta expect a margin for error in everything when you are talking about dealing with tens of thousands of customers day in and day out.

The link in OP seems to indicate that there are still problems at UB, at best that the new management has not been forthcoming and is not delivering on what it ought to be delivering, at worst... that's partly why OP posted this.

This is coming 2 years after the fact, with very little info to substantiate any of it. I will be blunt in saying that ANYONE could say that they were cheated in the scandal and have not been reimbursed. Hell, I could say it. I do know that the new UB management reimbursed $30+ million to the effected users here. If there is actual documented proof that there is something they have missed, then i'd love to hear it. If not, it's kinda like the rumor mill at work. It goes in one ear and out the other. And to my knowledge, a lot of the details have been disclosed, so i'm not totally sure where any of this information is coming from.

are any of the sites safe, can you see all that goes on with them. how about the sites themselves that continuously shuffle the cards through out the hand. how is that not concidered cheating in a sense. i assumed that all http://www.pokerlistings.com/randomi...d-distribution

well they've missed actually giving the real names of all the conspirators and/or taking any sort of legal action against them for a start. wonder why that is?

also lol at your "zomg anyone could say anything how do you know it's true!?" speech immediately followed by "i know ub has reimbursed 30m and got completely new ownership because ub told me!".

UB blows..I only play our freerolls there when I need a cheap poker fix.. I prob should do what I did with Bodog and wipe that pos site right off my pc.. Never liked it there.. And Ive been hating on there new software since they implemented it..

What I do know is that all of the major players involved have been named. I don't know about smaller role players, and if that is a point of arguement with UB, then so be it. And no, i'm not ignorant, I didn't just buy that UB reimbursed players because UB told me so. It's documented everywhere, including the gaming commission and numerous reputable poker outlets (hell, even CC itself).

And legal issues are always difficult when you are talking about international business. Someone from the US cannot prosecute someone from China when their business took place in Canada. That is where the shady side of online poker comes into play, because there is very little legal recourse against these types of cheaters, and they know it.

Greed will make normal honest people into demons. If there's a will, there's a way.

This is not true at all and is probably why the issue won't die. It is suspected that we might be very shocked at some of those involved and UB refuses to name them.

name one person who was identified and named by ub.

Maybe I need to go back and look into this a lil bit more. I thought that the major players had been named, at least from the reports that I had read about the issue. This was like 4 months ago. Maybe I need to go back and check for new news, because this is all news to me.

i'll go back and look it all up. i don't know all of their names. i know tom anderson was named, and that was supposed to be the ring leader and the most controversial of them all. the rest, i couldn't tell you off the top of my head. but, it is possible that all my facts aren't straight. my question still remains, aside from lack of transperency, are there any new issues that have come up regarding UB, or is this just beating a dead horse into the ground?

Let bygones be bygones... just don't play on Ub. Simple as that. You know the saying goes: If one person has a good experience with something they might tell 1 out of 10 people about it. If one person has a bad experience they will tell 5-7 out of 10 people about it. No reason to beat a dead horse, I would definitely stick up for you if you honestly think you were robbed, and IMO the only thing that's thievery on Ub & Absolute is the ridiculous rake. These super user accounts would not waste their time playing the average stakes we play.

I know this is an ongoing issue and some people are so persistent that they won't stop until they have an honest answer. But, I believe this is a non-topic. Sure there should be a post informing people of this issue, but it shouldn't be up for debate. Like stated previously, if you don't trust it, don't play there. It's as simple as that.

russ hamilton was the only one formally named and confirmed and that was the result of a lot of digging by 2+2. some other names that i forget were thrown around (again as a result of 2+2 digging rather than UB saying "hay guyz here's some names for you") but afaik nothing was confirmed with them.

it's absurd that a poker community with no direct involvement with ub has brought infinitely more information to light about the case than ub itself.

russ hamilton. damn, did i really say tom anderson. lol. too early in the morning. i know that 2+2 did a lot of research, and brought forth some information. idk though, to me this just sounds like a moot point anymore.

The Kahnawake gaming commission stated that the reason they did not release the names of the cheaters is because that would have been a detriment to people who were cheated getting their money back but no feasible explanation on why this was so. This interview was done on 60 minutes if you want to check.As long as they are still in business the point is never mute in my opinion.Muting discussions on this only help ub and kahnawake cover it up. It looks like that other forum is still working on it and I expect more news in the future.

After reading the 2p2 thread linked in the OP, I saw nothing of allegations or insinuations of any ongoing cheating. The only accusations against the current ownership were due to their complete lack of transparency into the investigation. While I haven't / don't / likely won't play at UB/AP I don't see where CC or anyone should stop playing there for fear of being cheated.

There is vague allegation from OP which amounts to paranoia, it is not substantiated anywhere.

See what I mean?? Look at the size of this thread, based on comments such as above...

There is nothing 'going on there' (like the superuser scandal) that has been reported anywhere, a couple of funny hands with Hellmuth that were widely reported but no systemic problem has been reported since the scandal some 2 years ago...

BTW Debi u should be able to get RB there, I did after being a member for years, they are open to late-rakeback deals...

Management has kept their mouth shut but that is not unusual in scandals. OP is hinting at further probs but has nothing to back up those hints, so this is a witch hunt at this point

Myself I dont play high enough limits to fear superusers (they r gone anyway) and have seen no more cheating (like collusion) at UB than anywhere else.

And yes it is fishy and thats why we love it!!

Nice derail there... do you honestly think it's going to help you when you are acting immature and using lots of profanity in your e-mails to "professionals" it's more likely to hurt than help. Just my 2c.

LOL post was removed before I finished typing my response.

Since I never deposited there it's a non-issue for me anyway.

I just keep the 100$ I won there freerolling to participate in CC games.

Since I won't get rakeback there (like dakota) the money is more or less parked anyway.

Maybe someday I'll deposit just to draw the money out but since I don't need it that badly I postpone it...

As mentioned the superuser scandal took place rather long time ago (I don't think I was CC-member back then) and my beard has almost grown through the table by now.

BTW: The weather forecast is rigged, too.

it is rigged because ftp nuts wins always on UB