Super-users identified on Ultimate Bet

Cross-posting from 2+2: Ultimatebet had superusers also: Xpost from High Stakes - Two Plus Two Forums

Haven't read the whole thing, but apparently the stats are way beyond the realms of possibility - much like the Absolute Poker superusers -, the accounts were CLOSED when the AP scandal broke.

For anyone who doesn't know, Ultimatebet and Absolute are the same company.

Maybe someone can summarise / post the evidence for this forum.

Discuss.

What is the source of your information? Absolute did purchase UltimateBet. Is UltimateBet returning funds to players who played in these games. Why are you apologizing - are you in some way involved?

I assume that you mean prosecute instead of persecute (persecute is probably more proper - that might involve tarring and feathering)

Merlin333

Erm... OP is copied from another source and, if I read it right, that's actually an e-mail from Phil Hellmuth so he's the one apologising with poor grammar.

As to the content of the post... oh dear...

... and I can't vouch for the Phil Hellmuth email being genuine - am just reporting from the other site. The stats and anecdotal evidence of these users' play does sound quite damning however.

oh god 36 pages in the thread linked there, i'm not going to get any work done this morning

edit: half way through - i'm convinced already.

edit deux: oh my god if that hellmuth mail is real i don't know whether to laugh or cry

edit trois: it isn't real, heh

Phil Hellmuth is apologizing since he promotes Ultimatebet on their site.

The e-mails are fake (well, they're real, but not from PH but rather someone imitating him).

Oh dear

Never did like the way Ultimatebet cash games were played

Will CC continue to hold events at Ultimatebet??

Although nothing fully proved as yet there are some big hitters on that site that are 100% sure the site is rigged.

Thanks

AFAIK Cardschat only holds events at Full Tilt, Poker Stars, and Bodog.

If we think about this logically - unless a member of CC is one of those people at Ultimatebet with a superuser account then our games would not be affected

i confess, it was me.

seriously, it's more to do with not wanting to do business with companies that are not reputable and/or grossly incompetent than the chance of anyone being 'directly affected'.

personally i think sitting on this for a short while and seeing how Ultimatebet spin before jumping to any quick judgments is the best course of action, but any decision regarding the running of CC events/advertising etc lies with Nick.

Check the calendar for the many places played. Ultimatebet is one of them.

1) Value Betting A9 high
Hand #45623277-463 at Waterbury (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 30/Aug/07 15:16:37

NioNio is at seat 2 with $52357.
arbianight is at seat 5 with $13389.
The button is at seat 5.

arbianight posts the small blind of $50.
NioNio posts the big blind of $100.

NioNio: -- --
arbianight: -- --

Pre-flop:

arbianight raises to $300. NioNio re-raises to $900.
arbianight calls.

Flop (board: 8s Jd Qd):

NioNio checks. arbianight bets $1800. NioNio calls.


Turn (board: 8s Jd Qd 4h):

NioNio checks. arbianight checks.

River (board: 8s Jd Qd 4h 2s):

NioNio bets $5400. arbianight calls.



Showdown:

NioNio shows 9h Ac.
NioNio has 9h Ac 8s Jd Qd: ace high.
arbianight mucks cards.


Hand #45623277-463 Summary:

$1 is raked from a pot of $16200.
NioNio wins $16199 with ace high.
----------------------------------------------------------------

2) More sick value bets

Hand #44558824-288 at Ann Arbor (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 19/Jul/07 05:52:12

mrwonkaman is at seat 0 with $7440.
CloseUrEyes is at seat 1 with $14341.
piejay is at seat 2 with $7623.
NioNio is at seat 3 with $32271.
maxEmus125 is at seat 4 with $20971.
elpanchito is at seat 5 with $10647.
The button is at seat 0.

CloseUrEyes posts the small blind of $50.
piejay posts the big blind of $100.

mrwonkaman: 6h Jh
CloseUrEyes: -- --
piejay: -- --
NioNio: -- --
maxEmus125: -- --
elpanchito: -- --

Pre-flop:

NioNio raises to $350. maxEmus125 folds. elpanchito
re-raises to $1200. mrwonkaman folds. CloseUrEyes
folds. piejay folds. NioNio calls.

Flop (board: 5c Js As):

NioNio checks. elpanchito checks.

Turn (board: 5c Js As 9s):

NioNio bets $2550. elpanchito calls.

River (board: 5c Js As 9s Ks):

NioNio bets $4300. elpanchito calls.



Showdown:

NioNio shows 8s 5h.
NioNio has 8s Js As 9s Ks: flush, ace high.
elpanchito mucks cards.
(elpanchito has Jd Kh.)


Hand #44558824-288 Summary:

$3 is raked from a pot of $16250.
NioNio wins $16247 with flush, ace high.

both absolute and ultimate bet are owned by Tokwiro enterprisesn September 2007, Absolute Poker began defending itself following accusations made by members of several Internet forums that the online poker room has a "superuser" account which allows one player to read the hole cards of another during a game. [4] By October, widespread Internet allegations of cheating led to the Kahnawake Gaming Commission opening an investigation. [5][6] Although allegations had been made about several accounts, one of the most remarkable pieces of evidence was a complete history of a tournament in which a player called "POTRIPPER" played. This history was far more complete than normal, and included all hidden hole cards for all players. It was sent out, perhaps by accident, when a player complained about suspicious play. Reviewing the data, well-known mathematician and gaming expert Michael Shackleford said:
Hand after hand POTRIPPER’s play is consistent with that of a player who had knowledge of every player’s hole cards. The majority of hands show POTRIPPER bluffing at just the right times when his opponents were weak. Yet, when he was hopelessly outmatched, even with good cards, he laid them down. [7] On October 19, an unofficial source within Absolute Poker claimed that an employee hacked the system to "prove a point". [8] On October 21, Absolute released an official statement:
It appears that the integrity of our poker system was compromised by a high-ranking trusted consultant employed by Absolute Poker whose position gave him extraordinary access to certain security systems. As has been speculated in several online forums, this consultant devised a sophisticated scheme to manipulate internal systems to access third-party computers and accounts to view hole cards of other customers during play without their knowledge.[9] [...] We will pay for all losses suffered by the affected players as soon as our audit is finished and the amounts are determined. In November 2007, Absolute issued an interim statement claiming the employee cheating took place over a period of forty days, and the cardroom was refunding $1.6million to affected players.[10] The Kahnawake Gaming Commission issued its report on the incident in January 2008. Among other consequences, Absolute Poker was fined $500,000.[11]
The Quebec provincial police opened an investigation into the matter that is ongoing. [12]

the first post was a hand history of a game nionio (the superuser??)was in i dont think its that suspicious but his stats are a bit weird i have to say
wanted to post them to but i cant (something whit the size i dunno)google and ul see them and judge for urself!
do i think Ultimatebet is rigged? i dont think so at the moment,its a bit suspicious nio removed his account when the absolute debacle started but thats no concrete evidence..some people say its impossible to hack pokersoftware because it takes a million handlings per second to do so..thats true.but a real software developer dont thinks that way..he thinks how can i write a program that can do a million things pro second!!almost every program has a so called backdoor that allows the creator to enter the program so he can modify errors in it etc.the superusers account for ab was used for testing the software in a early stage it should have been destroyed or given to a third (mayb controlling agency/party)in my opinion every site can be rigged its just depends on the trustworthy of the developers and the controllers.i play the most on Ultimatebet and im not quitting, this shit could happen to the best

6 months ago, that was termed "a bluff". Now it's "sick value bet". LOL (not)

Cant edit last post. Who else is calling a 5K bet with less than Ace High?

^^^ i was thinking the same thing, the hand histories arent that much to go off (well the oens posted here), a river bluff by someone thinking they have no other way to win hand, not a value bet since how can he think he is going to be called by worse than ace hgih. On the 2nd hand someone betting with the 3rd nut flush, that is just CRAZY talk. I havent seen any of the other HH but those 2 arent convincing

also Ultimate and Titan.

guys, the hands aren't proof of anything on their own - we've all seen stupider hands than the ones posted, I'm sure.

the Poker Tracker stats on the other hand are proof, and as such the hands provide a nice little piece of supporting evidence.

ahhh i see DM, is it possible for you to post those stats here?

Switch,

Log onto the link in the OP.

There are 36/37 pages of stats etc.

Cheers

Just reading through now.

So far (half-way through!). The most damning evidence was this, data provided by mypokerintel and posted by Omniheart on 2+2. This spreadsheet shows all the suspect users cash game buy-ins and cash outs. He pocketed 600k!

The Poker Tracker stats show a BB/100 win rate at 10x normal standard deviation. And apparently the user disappeared and closed the account on the 4th September, about the time that the Absolute Poker scandal was blowing up.

Attached Images

nioxh0.jpg (536.3 KB, 210 views)

This posted by Trambopoline on 2+2:

WOwowowow, look at the post I found on pocketfives from November. Posted by Gank, a well respected tourney player....

The Ultimatebet skinny: An insider talks (Edit: with sickening update)
by gank on 11/9/2007 23:32



Well, I guess I have become the reporter everyone trusts to talk about what goes on behind the scenes while protecting my source's identity, as I have been contacted by and had a long conversation with an employee at Ultimatebet who wished to shed light on the company. Again, I will protect my source and not be releasing his/her name to anyone, ever.

I will list the all the important points from the conversation as best I can.

1. It is possible to have upto 25 usernames registered to 1 players name on Ultimatebet, they know about this and are ok with it as a company.

2. If someone does have multiple accounts, even if they are registered to the same name and use the same IP address, they are permitted to play at the same table, cash games and sitNgos and tournies. Ultimatebet knows about this, and are OK with it.

3. Although my source is not sure if hole cards could be seen during the hand by a superuser account, my source does know that as soon as a hand is over with, Ultimatebet personell has access to see everyones holecards even those that didnt go to showdown. This has been used by some UB higher ups at times while they were playing. Not a direct form of cheating, but definitely an unfair advantage if the person has access to this while playing.

4. A higher level executive was fired not to long ago, because her 19 year old son, who she got a job at Ultimatebet, was caught cheating games at the UB office. It is unclear to my source if holecards were able to be seen during the hand, but it is a possibility. He definitely was cheating customers somehow, maybe a cobination of the above things mentioned at the very least.

edit: Another close, reliable source has just talked to me and told me "the woman's son had"administrative access" which let him see hole cards." and that the source "wouldn't besurprised if administrative access still exists" The person went on to say "there's also evidence that at least a couple months agoAJ (Green) was overseeing day to day operations"

5. "Someone" was brought on board by Ultimatebet to help clean up the site. He figured out the problem was that they were using a version of the software from 1998 that had security holes in it(i.e. no security firewalls were/could be put in place) that couldnt be fixed without a complete overhaul of the software, which was estimated at costing 6 million dollars. UB decided it was not in their best interests to upgrade the software.

6. My source also voiced their concern for my safety for vocalizing these points.

I bring this to light because I feel that this is the important stuff that our community needs to be aware of.


here is the link to the entire p http://www.pocketfives.com/73CFD2BC-...CB1FD89B8.aspxost

WOW. I also read of this on the railbirds site. Very disturbing indeed.

According to trambopoline at 2+2:


Ilike2win, utakeit2, flatbroke33, sleeplesss, nymobser, nopaddles, nionio and easychamp

A later post suggests that nionio changed his name to nymobser and that nopaddles changed name to sleeplesss. And both changes were made on the same day!

I'm just amazed that anyone still has an account with Absolute Poker or Ultimatebet.

I played for a short time at Ultimate Bet. there were many suspicions of collusion and I believe 1 confirmed case of a player with multiple accounts playing multiple hands in the same game. for whatever reason I lost initial deposit and never played again.

i wonder if PH even knows what is going on or if he even knows that someone is imitating him....I guess if I was him i wouldnt care as long as i get the check in the mail....how well is Ultimatebet doing anyways I mean compared to PokerStars and FT it cant be doing that well

This is through the link but anyone who dooesn't want to go through it take a look at this:


wolfdog2121 posts the small blind of $25.
mrwonkaman posts the big blind of $50.

NioNio: -- --
wolfdog2121: -- --
mrwonkaman: -- --
trambopoline: Ah Ad
Johnny_Hustle: -- --
OhioFilmmaker: -- --

Pre-flop:

trambopoline raises to $175. Johnny_Hustle folds.
OhioFilmmaker folds. NioNio calls. wolfdog2121
folds. mrwonkaman folds.

Flop (board: Ts 5h 9d):

trambopoline bets $325. NioNio calls.

Turn (board: Ts 5h 9d 8d):

trambopoline checks. NioNio bets $1075.
trambopoline calls.

River (board: Ts 5h 9d 8d Ac):

trambopoline checks. NioNio checks.

Showdown:

trambopoline shows Ah Ad.
trambopoline has Ah Ad Ts 9d Ac: three aces.
NioNio mucks cards.
(NioNio has 8h 5c.)

lol Just goes to show that even when you know your opponents hole cards you still get sucked out on. River will kill you every time.

I play at Ultimatebet and I like it there. To me their software is the best, you can miniview the tables and fit a large number of them on the screen at once.

Since I never play higher than .25/.50 NL I think I can rest assured that there's no "superuser" wasting time playing at my levels.

Personally I think there's this same loophole in every site's software and that as time goes on, whether true or not, it's going to come out that someone has done this on almost every site out there.

I've also never had a problem getting money out of Ultimatebet.

So it's troublesome that this exists but I'll wait until I see something in a court of law before I jump on any bandwagon.

WHOOOOOOOOSSSSHH!