Question about final table tournament play.

This is a discussion on Question about final table tournament play. within the online poker forums, in the Poker Rooms section; I've made a few final tables but can never seem to do as well as I do during the beginning or middle. I know I ...
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  #1
17th November 2009, 1:58 AM
ashershi
 
Online Poker at: fulltilt
Game: holdem
Question about final table tournament play.

I've made a few final tables but can never seem to do as well as I do during the beginning or middle. I know I must me doing something wrong. I've played tight most of the time, only playing solid cards. However, I have also tryed being more of a aggressor (Seems to not do as well). I was wondering if anyone had any tips or input they could give me.

For instance how to play short stack, average and chip leader at a final table.

I would appreciate any feedback!
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  #2
17th November 2009, 2:28 AM
ckingriches
 
Poker at: Full Tilt
Game: holdem
Generally you need to adjust your play from what got you to the final table, in part because of the increased size of the blinds. Plus the payouts increase rapidly as the final table winds down.

If you are short-stacked, you need to be relatively patient and get your chips in the pot when you are likely to have the best hand. Even more important is your position relative to the blinds and your reads on the other players. If you go all in without many chips with the chip leader in the big blind, you better have an A and decent kicker or a pair. If you have enough chips to at least make someone think before calling, then use that to your advantage. Stealing a few blinds or doubling up a time or two will bring you to an average stack in no time.

If you are average-stacked, pay even closer attention to your position and the relative chip stacks around you. If it's folded around to you near the button, don't hesitate to raise with almost anything. But don't be afraid to fold, even a decent hand that might put you out. Don't bet an amount on a marginal hand against a more desparate player that's likely to push all in and cripple your stack. Don't chase flushes or straights against bigger stacks unless you've already represented a made hand.

If you're a chip leader, you need to play aggressively and exert pressure on the average stacks. You also might want to risk some chips to put the smaller stacks out on marginal hands. If the pace is a little frantic, you can always step aside until a few players are gone. If the play is tentative, you probably should be even more aggressive to set yourself up for the final few players.

My most important rule is "don't be afraid to fold the best hand". There's no shame in waiting for a better opportunity. My second most important rule is "don't panic". For whatever it's worth, I've had pretty good success at final tables. Good luck.
  #3
17th November 2009, 2:35 AM
nipper672
 
Online Poker at: ultimatebet
Game: holdem
I seem to follow the same pattern. I can do well enough to make the cut and sometimes carry the chip lead in to final table before being blinded out. Alot of times my chips drop by laying down what could possibly be the best hand. Seems when I test a low top pair (i.e. Pair 7's) after the flop big reraises force me to drop them. Not about to risk half my stash on 7's with two cards to go.
  #4
17th November 2009, 2:36 AM
ashershi
 
Poker at: fulltilt
Game: holdem
re: Question about final table tournament play. poker

Thanks for that! I'm in a $1,500 guarantee right now doing pretty well. 4/299. I'm definatly going to use that info on this tourny.

Again, thanks again. Any other feedback would be appreciated as well.
  #5
17th November 2009, 2:59 PM
jolietdusty
 
Online Poker at: Full TIlt
Game: holdem,omaha
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckingriches
Generally you need to adjust your play from what got you to the final table, in part because of the increased size of the blinds. Plus the payouts increase rapidly as the final table winds down.

If you are short-stacked, you need to be relatively patient and get your chips in the pot when you are likely to have the best hand. Even more important is your position relative to the blinds and your reads on the other players. If you go all in without many chips with the chip leader in the big blind, you better have an A and decent kicker or a pair. If you have enough chips to at least make someone think before calling, then use that to your advantage. Stealing a few blinds or doubling up a time or two will bring you to an average stack in no time.

If you are average-stacked, pay even closer attention to your position and the relative chip stacks around you. If it's folded around to you near the button, don't hesitate to raise with almost anything. But don't be afraid to fold, even a decent hand that might put you out. Don't bet an amount on a marginal hand against a more desparate player that's likely to push all in and cripple your stack. Don't chase flushes or straights against bigger stacks unless you've already represented a made hand.

If you're a chip leader, you need to play aggressively and exert pressure on the average stacks. You also might want to risk some chips to put the smaller stacks out on marginal hands. If the pace is a little frantic, you can always step aside until a few players are gone. If the play is tentative, you probably should be even more aggressive to set yourself up for the final few players.

My most important rule is "don't be afraid to fold the best hand". There's no shame in waiting for a better opportunity. My second most important rule is "don't panic". For whatever it's worth, I've had pretty good success at final tables. Good luck.
I agree with this whole heartedly but also remember there is no changing tables at this point. If you are playing MTTs you have swithced tables many times by now and if you want to switch your table presence with the change in you chip stack that is a good time to do it easily. Now at the FT you will be playing the same people the rest of the tourney and some FTs can last a good while. You will need to shift gears many times or the good opponents will get a good read and you will only win small pots and lose big ones, not a good combination at this point in the game.
  #6
17th November 2009, 4:29 PM
Pbland
 
Poker at: FT,Bodog
Game: Holdem
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckingriches
Generally you need to adjust your play from what got you to the final table, in part because of the increased size of the blinds. Plus the payouts increase rapidly as the final table winds down.

If you are short-stacked, you need to be relatively patient and get your chips in the pot when you are likely to have the best hand. Even more important is your position relative to the blinds and your reads on the other players. If you go all in without many chips with the chip leader in the big blind, you better have an A and decent kicker or a pair. If you have enough chips to at least make someone think before calling, then use that to your advantage. Stealing a few blinds or doubling up a time or two will bring you to an average stack in no time.

If you are average-stacked, pay even closer attention to your position and the relative chip stacks around you. If it's folded around to you near the button, don't hesitate to raise with almost anything. But don't be afraid to fold, even a decent hand that might put you out. Don't bet an amount on a marginal hand against a more desparate player that's likely to push all in and cripple your stack. Don't chase flushes or straights against bigger stacks unless you've already represented a made hand.

If you're a chip leader, you need to play aggressively and exert pressure on the average stacks. You also might want to risk some chips to put the smaller stacks out on marginal hands. If the pace is a little frantic, you can always step aside until a few players are gone. If the play is tentative, you probably should be even more aggressive to set yourself up for the final few players.

My most important rule is "don't be afraid to fold the best hand". There's no shame in waiting for a better opportunity. My second most important rule is "don't panic". For whatever it's worth, I've had pretty good success at final tables. Good luck.
Really well said cking. For the most part, final table is all about being aggressive and seeing how people respond. Playing tight to get to the final table is good, but to advance you have to kick it up a notch.
  #7
17th November 2009, 6:37 PM
Egon Towst
 
Online Poker at: All over
Game: NLHE, PLO
You might find my guide to final table play useful.
  #8
18th November 2009, 1:12 AM
retrogamer
 
Poker at: full tilt
Game: holdem
re: Question about final table tournament play. poker

If you got a big stack there is no reason to do anything that aggressive.. you can increase what place you cash in on simply waiting for short stacks to get knocked out of the tournament.
  #9
18th November 2009, 1:56 AM
Exit141RTe1
 
Online Poker at: Full Tilt
Game: Holdem
It surely depends on your stack size. I believe varying your play to mix it up a bit when your down to the last few as beneficial. Waiting too long when the blinds get up there could prove to be the certain cash in the top few without carding the big W.

My two cents!
  #10
18th November 2009, 9:38 PM
Egon Towst
 
Poker at: All over
Game: NLHE, PLO
Quote:
Originally Posted by retrogamer
If you got a big stack there is no reason to do anything that aggressive.. you can increase what place you cash in on simply waiting for short stacks to get knocked out of the tournament.

With respect, I do not believe that is good advice. In the environment of the final table, a stack which threatens opponents with elimination is a major pyschological advantage.

I wouldn`t advocate reckless play, and one must pick one`s spots with a degree of intelligence, but it`s a weak player who does not push his edge.

The name of the game is controlled aggression, and a player who siezes his opportunities and seeks to control the table is far more likely to succeed than one who is afraid to play. The former is a predator, and the latter is prey.
  #11
19th November 2009, 5:16 AM
lektrikguy
 
Online Poker at: Full Tilt
Game: HE/PLO/Razz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egon Towst
You might find my guide to final table play useful.

Great guide-read it no matter how many final tables you have been to. The problem with final tables is that they're at the end of the tourney. You start thinking "how much will I win if I just shove now?" Stick with it and play your game.
  #12
23rd November 2009, 5:16 AM
retrogamer
 
Poker at: full tilt
Game: holdem
re: Question about final table tournament play. poker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egon Towst
With respect, I do not believe that is good advice. In the environment of the final table, a stack which threatens opponents with elimination is a major pyschological advantage.

I wouldn`t advocate reckless play, and one must pick one`s spots with a degree of intelligence, but it`s a weak player who does not push his edge.

The name of the game is controlled aggression, and a player who siezes his opportunities and seeks to control the table is far more likely to succeed than one who is afraid to play. The former is a predator, and the latter is prey.
Oh I totally agree. I dont mean sit back and do nothing.. definetly make those bets after a flop cause you can afford to. cause if a shot stack doesnt hit, they will fold instantly.. and raise preflop with good hands, and if you get a caller or re-raise, hope yer ahead and attempt to take them out.
  #13
23rd November 2009, 5:22 AM
CntryBoys
 
Online Poker at: PokerStars
Game: Holdem/Omaha
if i am short stacked i try to be patient. it really just depends on how much money is on the line. i kinda have to get a feelm of the players at the table to see how they are playin be 4 i am the aggresor. hope this helps
 



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