Possibly good news!!! Cereus (UB/Absolute Poker) sold to Blanca Games

#1 27th August 2010, 9:32 AM

http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/blanca...network-15027/

Maybe getting rid of this horrible ownership group will help put the terrible scandals further behind Ultimatebet/Absolute Poker and gives a chance for a competent owner to get this site moving to the potential it had when it first started operating in 1999.

Would love to see a poker site give reasonable competition to Full Tilt. Maybe CC will eventually start up the FRs again.

#2 27th August 2010, 9:43 AM

I totally agree. This network needs a lot more attention. I would like to see it catching Pokerstars and Full Tillt up.

#3 28th August 2010, 2:36 AM

ITs weird, I really like UB as it seems really comfy to play there, but I dont do very well on that site. AP doesnt seem as comfy but I seem to do better when I play there. I play such low levels that if they need to see my whole cards to beat me, then thats really weak

#4 28th August 2010, 2:39 AM

The ownership of that network has been far too shady for far too long for me to ever trust it.

#5 28th August 2010, 2:55 AM

I mean, Cereusly?

Oh and lol

Quote:

Commenting on Blanca's priorities for Cereus going forward, Mr. Gordon added: "We intend to leverage the existing strengths of the Cereus Poker Network, particularly in the areas of security"

#6 28th August 2010, 5:05 AM

was hoping it would be dismantled, but ok, new ownership.

anybody can do better than the last ppl running that . . .

#7 28th August 2010, 3:12 PM

For those who would like a pretty good history of the sites that make up Cereus I have placed links for both below. These seem to be pretty accurate and better than a lot of the half-truth and mis-informed posts made by people on most forums.

UltimateBet (UB) History

AbsolutePoker (AP) History

And, I guess 2 year is far too long for some people. And, when AP/UB are 1-2 years into it's 2nd ownership group since the scandals, I'm sure this group will get nailed by people re-posting "news" from 3-4 years ago and complaining how horrible AP/UB is.

#8 29th August 2010, 12:15 AM

It maybe too little too late to help salvage and save Cereus network.

#9 31st August 2010, 4:50 AM

If they have new owners I see no reason why the new owners shouldn't be given the same opportunity as any other site.

I will still play there that is for sure.

#10 31st August 2010, 11:23 AM

I'll give it a try (once again) - at least in the coming OFC.

My 200$ BR on UB is lying pretty idle anyway.

#11 4th September 2010, 4:09 AM

So Ultimate Bet is changing its ownership again... and as the internet is not well regulated in terms of slander I imagine many people harbor some suspicions... But I will elide all that presently and attempt a more droll perspective:

Doesn't this constant switching of ownership every few months remind one of a lover of questionable character, whom perhaps seems so attractive to be with but you cannot stand to be involved with once you have attainted?

I mean there must be something behind the scenes which the owners realize and figure that the site is not that profitable or worthwhile versus the risks or time, etcetera...

#12 4th September 2010, 4:19 AM

I'll reserve judgement for now. If I were a betting man(and I am), I would give them 2-4 months before the first scandal appears under the new ownership. Well, I guess I didn't reserve judgement after all.

#13 5th September 2010, 4:38 AM

except now we have to worry about new super-users- testing their moral mettle versus avarice, and old super-users from spurned employees out the door, and more surreptitious activities, and cronyism, etcetera. ah well, i only play for fun anyway. but it would be more fun if the odds actually held up.

#14 5th September 2010, 5:28 AM

I refuse to play poker at these sites until CC gives the okay. I trust your decision on this matter. Just hope it gets better soon so we can play some poker.

#15 6th September 2010, 12:39 AM

So does anyone have 100% prof that there are no super users at Pokerstars, FTP or any of the other sites.If so I would love to see this proof.

#16 6th September 2010, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmixer

So does anyone have 100% prof that there are no super users at Pokerstars, FTP or any of the other sites.If so I would love to see this proof.

#17 6th September 2010, 1:49 AM

I hope this site improves again. I used to play regularly there at the low stakes. Rarely played when it was Cereus owned. Was just not that fun. Would certainly give it another go.

#18 6th September 2010, 1:58 AM

I learned to play at ub. But it gives you woped playing style. Playing against, Bots, cheats, Collaberators. Guess if you can Win there you can win anywheres.

#19 6th September 2010, 7:44 AM

Onemorechance.....so no? then you dont have proof ? Just a silly picture? Are we adults here or what. I am asking for proof that Pokerstars or any other site for that matter does not ave any employees with superuser access?

UB got caught but to be honest can they really be the only ones?

#20 6th September 2010, 7:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmixer

Onemorechance.....so no? then you dont have proof ? Just a silly picture? Are we adults here or what. I am asking for proof that Pokerstars or any other site for that matter does not ave any employees with superuser access?

Ultimatebet got caught but to be honest can they really be the only ones?

Can't say you would ever find any proof ... but following the various forums there are always articles about Stars, Tilt and a few other sites discovering ... and frequently announcing openly ... that they uncovered player cheating schemes of one sort or another ... and refunded player money.

What made most folks the most upset was UB/AP's initial responses after being investigated was that all was well with the world and the accusers were in error. They were squeaky clean. Then the proof that it was true about the scams came out.

With the amount of money being played on PS and Tilt, you can bet there are many players and groups watching the action closely on those sites. In that case, more to the point is that AP and UB have numerous proven incidents of corporate and financial indiscretions ... but there is no proof that there has been such happenings at the other sites. When and if that happens, it will create as big a scandal (or bigger) than has happened at the other Cereus sites.

#21 6th September 2010, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmixer

Onemorechance.....so no? then you dont have proof ? Just a silly picture? Are we adults here or what. I am asking for proof that Pokerstars or any other site for that matter does not ave any employees with superuser access?

Ultimatebet got caught but to be honest can they really be the only ones?

I happen to quite like that silly picture and thought it was an appropriate response

#22 6th September 2010, 2:35 PM

You know what's really sad about this? That they were able to find a buyer.

Their brand equity ought to be in the toilet and they can't have much in the way of physical assets to chop up. About the only valuble asset they'd have on their books is their contracts with Phil Hellmuth and Annie Duke.

Which brings us to the sad part: what they're really paying for is the network's player base... which means there's still more than enough players there to make it worth buying. After all the cheating scandals, controversy and other issues people are still playing there. Why is that?!?

#23 6th September 2010, 2:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmixer

Onemorechance.....so no? then you dont have proof ? Just a silly picture? Are we adults here or what. I am asking for proof that Pokerstars or any other site for that matter does not ave any employees with superuser access?

Ultimatebet got caught but to be honest can they really be the only ones?

On a serious note: if it's happening (and that's a very big if, FWIW) it's not on anything like the scale of the UB case. It simply couldn't be without someone noticing. The online poker community simply has too many nerds with the time and tools available to them to identify it - remember that it was the players that found and proved it on UB.

Plus the major sites have a tidy, multi-squillion dollar business already sewn up. They wouldn't want a scandal like that threatening their profits so it's safe to assume they're extra vigilant about their security.

#24 6th September 2010, 5:10 PM

Nevada and Oz...I agree. I hope it isn't goingonat the other sites. If what you say is true and the poker community is still watching closely then I imagine if it happens with new owners they will catch it again. I will the go and enter a sit n go fir the remainder of my br and be done with it.

#25 6th September 2010, 8:57 PM

I hope the change of ownership helps their image... I left UB after the big scandal...

#26 7th September 2010, 12:26 AM

Anyone who thinks the sale of UB/Absolute is going to change anything needs their head examined!

#27 7th September 2010, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmixer

Onemorechance.....so no? then you dont have proof ? Just a silly picture? Are we adults here or what. I am asking for proof that Pokerstars or any other site for that matter does not ave any employees with superuser access?

Ultimatebet got caught but to be honest can they really be the only ones?

You're asking to prove a negative, which isn't possible no matter the subject.

Is it possible? Sure it's possible, there are employees who have access to hole cards from the server side. If they didn't, they wouldn't be able to investigate cheating, or broadcast their PokerStars.tv coverage of online events with hole cards exposed. However PS and FT have always taken security very seriously, and I'm certain they have safeguards in place and internal audits that would quickly uncover anything, especially in light of the Absolute Poker/Ultimatebet scandals. Same as with any other financial institution or other corporation where employees have access to highly sensitive information or large amounts of funds -- the controls in place are ridiculously tight and make it extremely difficult for rogue employees to get away, at least for long, with any funny business. And as was pointed out, the poker community itself is pretty quick to pickup on when things just don't look right.

People throw around the terms "superuser" and reference the Absolute Poker/Ultimatebet scandals without really knowing or understanding what went on and how. If you realize how it happened, you realize how unlikely it is to ever happen at PS or FT, or even again at Cereus for that matter.

First, Absolute Poker's superuser scandal arose from a consultant who had full access to their backend systems. This backdoor access was presumably for support and investigative purposes, but this consultant (player known as POTRIPPER) abused it for his own gain. It was suspected that he shared this access with friends, but I don't know that it was ever proven.

Next, Ultimatebet's problems started with a scam perpetrated by some software developers employed by the original owners, Excapsa Software, who inserted some secret backdoor code into their system to broadcast hole card data in real time as hands were being played. Russ Hamilton (a WSOP ME winner) was employed as a consultant and is widely considered to be the ringleader of a group who used this for cheating.

By the time the scandals emerged, Ultimatebet was under new ownership (Tokwiro Enterprises), so from their perspective they were innocent. They audited their systems, found the secret backdoor code and removed it. However many consider them both negligent in not doing their due diligence on auditing their newly acquired systems up front, and also in their repeated denials and misinformation campaigns following the scandals. Combine that with a few lesser software/security snafus afterwards (the infamous Phil Hellmuth hand glitch, the weakness in their encryption protocol, the lying about their encryption being industry standard when it was really a home-grown simple XOR algorithm, etc.) and a pattern of a negligent operation emerges. So the original owners were (or employed) blatant crooks, while the subsequent owners were lazy, negligent, deniers who couldn't be bothered to clean up the previous owners' mess until the chickens came home to roost.

The kicker for me is, I simply HATE their software. As in, it completely tilted me every time I played there.

I simply have no reason to go back, when you have the better experience and track record of solid sites like PS and FT, whom I trust far more than I ever would the Absolute Poker/Ultimatebet portfolio. Too little, too late, IMO...

#28 7th September 2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmorris68

You're asking to prove a negative, which isn't possible no matter the subject.

Is it possible? Sure it's possible, there are employees who have access to hole cards from the server side. If they didn't, they wouldn't be able to investigate cheating, or broadcast their PokerStars.tv coverage of online events with hole cards exposed. However PS and FT have always taken security very seriously, and I'm certain they have safeguards in place and internal audits that would quickly uncover anything, especially in light of the Absolute Poker/Ultimatebet scandals. Same as with any other financial institution or other corporation where employees have access to highly sensitive information or large amounts of funds -- the controls in place are ridiculously tight and make it extremely difficult for rogue employees to get away, at least for long, with any funny business. And as was pointed out, the poker community itself is pretty quick to pickup on when things just don't look right.

People throw around the terms "superuser" and reference the Absolute Poker/Ultimatebet scandals without really knowing or understanding what went on and how. If you realize how it happened, you realize how unlikely it is to ever happen at PS or FT, or even again at Cereus for that matter.

First, Absolute Poker's superuser scandal arose from a consultant who had full access to their backend systems. This backdoor access was presumably for support and investigative purposes, but this consultant (player known as POTRIPPER) abused it for his own gain. It was suspected that he shared this access with friends, but I don't know that it was ever proven.

Next, Ultimatebet's problems started with a scam perpetrated by some software developers employed by the original owners, Excapsa Software, who inserted some secret backdoor code into their system to broadcast hole card data in real time as hands were being played. Russ Hamilton (a WSOP ME winner) was employed as a consultant and is widely considered to be the ringleader of a group who used this for cheating.

By the time the scandals emerged, Ultimatebet was under new ownership (Tokwiro Enterprises), so from their perspective they were innocent. They audited their systems, found the secret backdoor code and removed it. However many consider them both negligent in not doing their due diligence on auditing their newly acquired systems up front, and also in their repeated denials and misinformation campaigns following the scandals. Combine that with a few lesser software/security snafus afterwards (the infamous Phil Hellmuth hand glitch, the weakness in their encryption protocol, the lying about their encryption being industry standard when it was really a home-grown simple XOR algorithm, etc.) and a pattern of a negligent operation emerges. So the original owners were (or employed) blatant crooks, while the subsequent owners were lazy, negligent, deniers who couldn't be bothered to clean up the previous owners' mess until the chickens came home to roost.

The kicker for me is, I simply HATE their software. As in, it completely tilted me every time I played there.

I simply have no reason to go back, when you have the better experience and track record of solid sites like PS and FT, whom I trust far more than I ever would the Absolute Poker/Ultimatebet portfolio. Too little, too late, IMO...

Great post. Just wanted to add that there were more superusers than just POTRIPPER, more than just the one rogue employee/owner/consultant/whatever you wanna call Hamilton.

#29 7th September 2010, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onemorechance

Great post. Just wanted to add that there were more superusers than just POTRIPPER, more than just the one rogue employee/owner/consultant/whatever you wanna call Hamilton.

I assumed there were more than POTRIPPER for the AP scandal, I just didn't recall how widespread or if any others were positively ID'd.

The UB thing with Hamilton was widely known to involve a bunch of people, as I said he was considered the ring-leader and coordinated money transfers and game info between the cheaters. I think he helped shield them or cover their tracks too.

#30 8th September 2010, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjoker66

Anyone who thinks the sale of Ultimatebet/Absolute is going to change anything needs their head examined!

Why though. Do you have proof they are still cheating? The same players that found them out before should be able to still do it right?

#31 8th September 2010, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmixer

Why though. Do you have proof they are still cheating? The same players that found them out before should be able to still do it right?

Does the fact that they've been caught either downright cheating or just being phenomenally shady under two 'different' owners not make you very suspicious about blindly trusting them a third time?

#32 8th September 2010, 12:53 AM

I mean look, just to follow that, their 'new' owners (Blanca Games) website contains this

Quote:

Based in Antigua, Blanca Games is the operator of the CEREUS Poker Network. The Cereus Poker Network powers some of the industry’s leading www.cereuspoker.com.

Blanca Games is licensed and regulated by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission in the Kahnawake Mohawk Territory.
The operations of the Blanca Group are conducted by subsidiaries and associated companies.

Just this use of bolded language seems really pretty strange to me. Plus this is just lol

Quote:

Please be advised that the brand UB.com has been recently acquired by Blanca Games Inc. At present, Blanca Games takes no responsibility for events occurred at former UltimateBet.com poker room.

#33 8th September 2010, 1:40 AM

The new ownership may not welcome u.s players , we have to wait and see when they take over on what there actions might be for UB/ABSP

#34 8th September 2010, 2:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappasqueaks

The new ownership may not welcome u.s players , we have to wait and see when they take over on what there actions might be for Ultimatebet/ABSP

It would *highly* unlikely that they would dump their US players, which comprise a significant majority of their revenue base. To spend that kind of money on an acquisition and then cut-off probably 70% of revenue? Not happening.

That said, I'd just as soon they did, maybe that would kill them off. IMO those sites need to die and new ones spring up from their ashes. I think that'll be the only way they'll regain any trust.

#35 10th September 2010, 4:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmixer

Onemorechance.....so no? then you dont have proof ? Just a silly picture? Are we adults here or what. I am asking for proof that Pokerstars or any other site for that matter does not ave any employees with superuser access?

Ultimatebet got caught but to be honest can they really be the only ones?

After reading the user aggreement on Full Tilt they mention that in the design of the system no superuser accounts were made possible because of the scandals at the other sites. They do say that iof someone could see your cards then that is your own computers security being breached. So FT is very certain that it is impossible for them to have a superuser account.

Not sure about PS-I dont play there that often to have read the user agreement fully.

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