Possible Collusion at Carbon

I don't want to go into too many details because I have an email into support but I did want to warn everyone here that player **name removed until further evidence** is most likely involved in collusion on Carbon.

The one thing I will say is that he had someone that was all in in front of him and he only had 50 more chips to call and he folded. He had 9000 in tourney chips when he did this. Just before this he had been abusive toward me and told me I was next in his taking out of players.


Not sure what will be the end result and the BI was not even all that much to worry about just wanted to let my CC friends know and to keep a watchful eye

imo the players screen name should be removed until you have proof. mods?

You have not given any indication of collusion in your post. More details please. Also your reporting of him is probably more out of the fact he was "abusive" to you.

Agreed and removed.

Good so I know in the future if I spot anything like this I can count on all of your support.

aka

Will never consider a thread like this again.

Yeah not that he had 9k in chips and folded HU to an all in with only 50 chips behind. You're right that's just a correct play.

It is a serious charge, if possible post the response of support here after receiving the e-mail

1 instance of bad play is not a indication of collusion. Collusion 101.

misclick?

Cause no one has ever misclicked in a critical situation EVER. Yup.

maybe a misclick or maybe he didnt want to knock him out so he could exploit the bubble more?

Misclick after telling me "you're next"?

Sorry I forgot to mention this was the bubble. DoN game.

I guess I just have to hope that support sees it a different way. Or as mrginal said maybe I am just mad that he abused me.....sigh

Once you get some more evidence I'll be happy to put the screen name back in but a single hand is not evidence of collusion.

Kmixer, please post the evidence you held back in the OP. It is completely relevant. If there is more, it is necessary to post it.

maybe it was maybe it wasnt, but DON bubble makes it more likely that he wanted to stay in..

Yet another witty reply. So glad the long time members are given be the benefit of the doubt 4 years and 2800 posts later.

Also you gotta love it that people talk about DoN collusion all the time but vwhen faced with an example its like no no no couldn't be

He wanted to stay in???? He had 9k in chips and folded to an all in player with only 50 chips to call.

It's a big accusation and you can't just post somebodies name and say they have colluded without serious evidence. If you showed that he had played 3k games lifetime and 2k of those games were played with said player. Also his ROI was siginificantly higher in the 2k games the accused player play together would be a start to a case of collusion.

If he was colluding why would he make it so blatent by telling you "you're next" and then folding in this spot. He could easily jsut be a random fish that doesn't want to put any chips in the middle with 32o.

You can count on the poker communities support if you come forward with a convinving accusation backed up with evidence. Take a look on 2p2 at some threads similar to this and how much evidence was provided in doing so.

I have disclosed everything at this point because of the doubt in all of your minds.

Oh well I lose. I am sure he was just an aggro guy having some fun.

Delete thread nothing to see here.

No worries. Perhaps change to cheating or chip dumping cause at the very least that happened.

"I don't want to go into too many details because I have an email into support"

So this was a lie? It doesnt matter if you are long standing or new, the quality of your post will determine the response.

Whatever marginal. Believe what you want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but you need to give me more is all I am saying.

Delete the thread.

Did not feel like you giving me the benefit of anything.

9k in chips - "You're next"
Folds his BB to an all in with only 50 chips to call HU

i don't think anyone is doubting your accusations. it's just that it's a serious offense and it would be irresponsible to wrongly accuse without solid evidence.
post supports response when they finish the investigation.

I disagree with what you're suggesting as parameters to meet collusion. (LOL at suggestion of 3,000 games, etc. blah blah blah.. ridiculous). And that he showed higher ROI in 2/3 of games where perhaps he was colluding (LOL more nonsense)
I've found players colluding in '1' game & it was blatant. Also never saw them on the site again after I'd reported it (& ran their sn's via TopShark & they didn't play again).

OP hasn't given much of a description of the collusion aside from player folding when getting I'm assuming great odds for 50chips (& assuming he's closing out the action). Obviously not to abuse the bubble.... it's a f'n DoN. Maybe just some goof who wanted to be a jerk off & had you pegged for some reason & wanted to see you lose (how many times have you seen idiots doin' dumb shyt like this online in sng's? I can't count how many).
OP, post some HH's (or post 'THE' 'HH' in question) & chat log.

was he soft playing this same guy throughout the DON? or any other occasions of note?

this ^

If he limped in, and only had to call 50 chips on the all-in'er but then folded i see it as chip dumping. But let's see what Carbon has to say.
DoN collusion runs high.
Do let us know if you get any info from Carbon, or see him playing again.

Snap call!

I'm gonna take the middle road here. I've played a lot of DoNs over the years and collusion is rampant in these games. However, there are different kinds of collusion; some expected and implicit to the format of the game and others that seemingly make little/no mathematical sense and aren't really collusion at all.

Expected/implicit collusion is when all the mid and large stacks "gang-up" on the shorty at the bubble to get him out so that all remaining players cash. Goes with the format, and is expected though never voiced.

What you're talking about here is not that. His play makes no sense, BUT that doesn't necessarily make it collusion, either. It's far more likely, imo, that for whatever reason you, specifically, were his target. Maybe you pissed him off earlier, maybe he didn't like your avatar, maybe he drew straws before match and picked you. Who knows? Anyway, it seems like he wanted you out regardless and was willing to let the other player live in order to achieve this goal.

While, mathmatically and financially, his play makes no sense; that doesn't automatically make it collusion either. He is free to play any hand in any manner he wishes. It only becomes collusion if he had a prior arrangement with the all-in player that he would fold to him at the end, rather than look him up. Or, some similar agreement, prior to this hand, that they would work co-operatively regardless if either of them became short. Something like that.

Bottom line is you can't collude with yourself. If he just let this guy live to get get you out because he had targeted you that's a douchy move for sure; but it's not evidence of collusion. To collude the other player would have to be actively working with him due to a prior arrangement where they would soft-play each other even if the math said not to.

Without the active participation of the all-in short-stack; there is no collusion. If you suspect there was such an arrangement; you're gonna need lots of proof. You're gonna have to have many, many games that they have played together where they participate in a strategy/move similar to this in order to spare each other. Not saying it doesn't/couldn't happen, but you're gonna need LOTS and LOTS of proof over many, many games.

I have retracted the Collusion already. That was a bad choice of words on my part. Chip dumping? If not then I seriously have no thread and sorry for posting.

That's what I thought too. But I guess if folding on purpose is not cheating I have no case. My original intention was to warn CC players to watch out.

Certainly sounds like he could have been soft playing in an effort to knock you out as opposed to the other player but that's not collusion. It's only collusion if another player was involved and had prior knowledge.

What he did sounds like a super douche move but it's still not enough to post his screen name imo. If Carbon comes back with something or you want to investigate other games that might have taken place with these 2 players I'll gladly add it back as I said before.

tbh this is what I think happened. He wasn't paying attention -- saw that he had 72o or something and hit check/fold. I've seen this happen many a times in micro DONS. where the BB will have like 5k and fold to a shove for like 150 extra chips.

It's just a sign of bad play.

Not saying that it couldn't be collusion, but I highly doubt it.

Btw, chip dumping is collusion. Also, soft playing is against the rules but I actually wouldn't think that occurred.