Juiced Sites

Do you think that online sites in general,are juiced? This is completely different than rigged. A juiced site is a site where there is a predominance of high card hands. These cards though are spread to all players. It would be in the sites benefit to juice the cards and make them more lively.
Which would see more action, a table whose hands are all low pocket pairs or a table with high pocket pairs? A high action table that's juiced up would generate an enormous amount of rake for the house. now if you do this for the whole site you are going to make an incredible profit.

Wouldn't a poker site have more to lose if they were found to be manipulating hands? Most sites and their RNGs are monitored by third parties. Unless they're all in on it I would think they'd be risking too much in their reputation.

I would guess the smaller / newer sites would be more willing to take such dangerous measures than the older established ones.

In general, maybe not, but when I read your post I immediately thought of one network (out of the 14 sites/networks where I have accounts) where I`ve long believed that the deal was more colourful than it has any right to be if it were random in the same sense that a B&M cardroom`s deal is random.

It`s one of the bigger networks, and it`s a very noticeable property of the game there, to the extent that the players routinely laugh about it in the chat box.

Be interesting to see if anyone else knows which network I`m describing.

I've been whining for a year plus about Titan, but yes, absolutely juiced. Ace-King flops, Paired flops Ad Nauseum. If you play Pokerstars (or any other site really) and Titan together (as I do an awful lot), you see the difference (this is rings and tourneys). And if it's not random, it must be rigged (I know the clever clogs will laugh this down, but i'm only saying what I see day after day, month after month).

You're going to say Pokerstars now after my post, aren't you!

pokerstars was the first site that popped to mind, and would have to be one that id say is juiced.

Err, no.

Actually, neither of the sites you mention was the one I had in mind, though I will agree that I`ve had more than my share of bad beats at Titan. I`ve also seen pocket KKs beaten by pocket AAs surprisingly often there, an event which should occur only about once in 3000 hands, if my math is correct.

Remember juiced is different than rigged. Juiced is all players getting almost pinochle like hands.

i see your point bbb but i don't think it would effect the way people play unless they are playing for some sizeable money. because what i have been seeing alot of is people playing pocket 3s or 8 2s like they had quads or something. i guess my point is a donk is a donk and no matter what will always be a donk and play like a donk

Sounds alot like 888.com. Ive never seen many hands outside of the faced cards winning there! You regularly make a straight just to be beaten by a full house etc. Thats my thoughts anyway.

Hmm, looks like this experiment failed. I wasn`t thinking of 888/Pacific either, though I do play there.

One more guess, anyone ? Then I`ll tell you.

I think we are only proving that it`s in the eye of the beholder.

absolute?

No, I was thinking Victor Chandler (which is Tribeca Network, so effectively the same as Doyles Room and several dozen others).

Seems like a lot of us think there is a juiced site out there, but we are each thinking of a different one.

now that is interesting hmmm

Id still put money on 888 being juiced and or rigged so that certain hands will win. Its just all too common to luck out on that site. Ive done it myself countless times. Ive had at least 4 quads there and im way into high double figures with 10 to Ace straights!

yep i definetly agree mainly because i get so many bad beats online i mean it could be because of the dumbasses who call goin for a gut shot after i hit a set but regardless for some reason people hit bigger hands against me whenever i get a big hand much more on the internet then it happens live but this could just be bc there making dumb calls idk

i dont think its rigged though bc why would some sit in a little cubicle making sure i hit big hands just to lose to a bigger hand in my freerolls and low limit tourneys/cash games

arite enough rambling for me im gonna go play poker and lose with quads lol

If the sites are juiced, then they must all have me flagged as well because I'm personally not seeing as much of the great cards. In fact lately I seem to be going through quite the opposite, where it feels like the deck we are using won't deal me face cards at all. I know that's not true, but it feels like it recently.

The tribecca network is kind of wonky.... but I love how bad the players are on that network... I am going through the Booyah front end and so far I am really enjoying it.

If you want to see another nutty site try out nine.com as that site loves to give people quads! Wish I could run pokertracker on that site because I must have hit quads 15 times in 3,000 hands.

You're all stupid.

hey, everyone in here...

shut up

I like juice.

By the way, juiced is the same as rigged. It's a subset of rigged. Rigged means that the cards are pre-determined rather than randomized, and juiced is where the cards are pre-determined to offer everyone above-average hands and increase the betting and the rake. It's still a kind of rigging.

Almost all of the arguments against rigging apply to juicing as well, and I won't re-hash them here, but essentially it would still be illegal, would big publicly-traded profitable companies risk everything?, and wouldn't we have seen it in the data by now?

Let's see some poker tracker data that shows that a user has twice as many AA hands as 22 hands pre-flop, or that people's hole cards are pairing up on the board more than they should. Again, over a long sample set.

Here are some other statistical misconceptions that have been studied:

1) Most people think they hit a greater % of red lights than they do while driving. Why? Because they actually stop for the red lights and notice them, but whiz by the green lights. Same thing for bad beats and strange hands versus "expected outcome" hands.

2) Something like 80% of people think they're above average drivers. Not too surprised, but I bet there's a similar stat in poker. And if 80% of poker players believe themselves to be above average, then at least 30% of poker players need to find something external to blame.

Stats-related musings that begin with "I noticed..." are often misleading, because the human brain can be lousy at interpreting stats, with emotion substituting for evidence at times.

great game:

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If poker sites really were rigged or juiced, then why the fukk are any of the conspiratorialists still playing online? Seems rather hypocritical now, doesn't it?

I too immediately thought of pokerstars. Many of the players make reference to it. wonder if a survey was done if they would win. However i do believe you have good days and bad days no matter where you play. And in those bad days it is easy to blame the site lol.

Let me tell you what I've accepted:
that the odds in poker, on-line vs live are different, and any odds that you have learned and accept does not nor will it ever be able to be applied to on-line poker properly.IMO

WTF???

I know you are, but what am I? LOL

No.. I don't think site's are juiced... And I Laugh at people that claim they are rigged...

All of the evidence we've seen in these threads lately suggests that rare hands occur about as often as they ought to. Sadly, I think you've convinced yourself of something that isn't true...

It's not a matter of opinion - it's a matter of looking at what hands have actually come up, which has been done many times, and it shows that they're exactly as expected. Poker sites go out of their way to describe their random number routines and there's absolutely nothing to suggest they're not random... in fact there's plenty of good proof that they are.

I think I love when people cry "My aces got cracked again by 4s!", forgetting that the reason they say AA vs 44 PF is a 4-1 favorite is because AA will lose the hand 1 out of 5 times. The times AA held up to win the hand is always forgotten by the idiots, however.

Back in the Sunday Million a few weeks back, the railbirds were giving Lee Jones (Stars Poker Room manager) a hard time about bad beats (i.e. "Any time players lose a hand"), and Lee got the railers going crazy by typing in, "How come I never get any credit when players win a hand?"

Seriously, you know why phrases like "The U.S. government blew up the World Trade Center towers!" and "Online poker is rigged" are considered nothing more than conspiracy theories? Because if they were true, they would be considered facts, and not theories!

Thank you. +rep

i dont think the site is juiced but on pokerstars i have had quads 6 times on 1 tble in a 5hr session and all my royals came in 3 conseq tournies spooky

Checking with the judges. Judges? ... Okay, the judges will accept "spooky".

Hand histories for these events? A major "spooky" then.