ICM tools banned on Stars.

YAY, mid-stakes sit and go's "may" become somewhat profitable again.

From the pokerstars website.

There are some programs which have legitimate uses for analysing your game, but which are not appropriate for use during play. For example, ICM (Independent Chip Model) and Nash Equilibrium tools may be used for post-game analysis and for studying hands which you have previously played. However, you may not use such a tool while the PokerStars software is open.

SSome examples of programs which are prohibited only while PokerStars is running are:

1. Insight Poker Hound
2. Sit n’ Go End Game Tools
3. SitnGo Wizard
4. SNG Power Tools
5. Spade ICM
6. STT Analyzer by PokerSoftwareTools

Do you know if Poker Office is still OK?

Didn't know about those other tools -- they sound awesome, but I'm not a big fan of tools (did that come out right?). What percentage of players do you think use these?

I don't even know what the hell these are lol

i dont know why anybody needs any kind of tools, ive never used any, everything i do stays in my head, and somehow when im in a hand it just pops out and tells me what to do,, its called using your own memory, i been doing that for years, i also dont use any type of poker tracker, i know how im doing by looking at my bankroll,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, buck

My thoughts exactly..

All of these people that are use to playing with several programs open are going to look very confused when they sit down at a real table and don't see percentages on everyone's forhead.

wow, dont I feel clueless, I cant even tell you what any1 of those tools r used for. I do like to use the holdem indicator and its cousin the tourney indicator, they are very good. They are a great way to learn Sklanskys groups as you play, and on sites like UB they will show ur folded cards

I don't play tourneys enough to really get into ICM, but from what I know about it it's used to maximize the money you will win and uses payout structure and such to determine if a move is +$ev instead of +chipev. As for the comments about using your memory instead of tools, that's false. The people who use trackers, HUDS, and such use their memory and poker knowledge along with the tools. I play live 1-2 times a week and I practically always win (although I think someone made the analogy that beating live games is like claiming you can beat a toddler at wrestling, I'm not claiming any of these players are any good). You also cannot multi-table live so you have more time to get reads. It's just that if I'm on the edge regarding a decision, I have a hard set of data to fall back on. If you just rely on your memory you have to treat everyone as the average player.

Don't get me wrong, not saying that you need these tools to be successful, just saying that the old-school attitude of not needing any fancy tools and somehow thinking that your mind can do better than the tools is pretty arrogant and flat-out false. If you're content playing without the tools and winning, hey I'm not going to say anything, but to ridicule players who do use them and pretend they'll be lost at a live game is false.

Ive said it before but ive often find all the extra bangles & baubles get too much in the way.

I agree about the bangles, but no way I'd ever play online without the baubles!

There are sites that don't show which hand you folded? I would really hate that.

Bodog just stamps a "FOLDED" on the cards once you lay em down. I can't see why any site wouldn't want to do that.

ICM stands for independent chip model and is very useful to analyze situations. Never used any of the programs that figure it out while playing, just pop some numbers in when its over.

I'm pretty sure most of the STT players don't (didn't) use ICM tools in-game anyways, so I really don't see the games getting much softer.

I think any online tool that assists you in decision making in the game should be outlawed. It would be like playing chess with a chess computer next to you suggesting moves.

agree. although maybe a few did and will become less tough to beat.

Wow. I did not realize so many tools existed. Feel like I've been walking into battle not knowing that my opponent has the latest technology supporting his soldiers while mine go in with pistols...

lol, yep it's a bit like going to a gunfight with a pocket knife.

They should ban all tools from all sites

Tools like Poker Tracker allow you to readily analyse your play, which hands are profitable, and so on. I think these are fine. The ones you can readily object to are the ones that collect stats from multiple players and share them, giving you access to information you wouldn't be allowed otherwise.