Full Tilt to ban Datamining Sites

Bodog announced recently that they were planning to block datamining sites and now Full Tilt may do the same:

http://www.onlinepokernews.org/poker...-jeopardy/2535

As of late, it seems that Full Tilt Poker may be moving to prohibit datamining sites from collecting information from Full Tilt players. After complaints were filed last year against PokerTableRatings and their coverage of Full Tilt games. Sites like PTR, known as dataming websites, track real money cash game data at online poker sites. Some data is free to those who subscribe, but some is not free and must be paid for, such as hand histories.
In a post on the 2+2 poker forum, a Full Tilt rep suggested that the online poker room had taken measures to prevent PTR from collecting data from their site, which explains why there has been little reports released by PTR regarding Full Tilt players and games. There has not, however, been any official statement made by Full Tilt regarding this issue. Nor has PTR released a statement, though they have acknowledged that this is a problem, especially for their paying users.
The problem with the datamining lies with those players who do not subscribe to a tracking site and who do not rely on these types of advantages. They say it is unfair to the everyday player that online poker sites ultimately markets to. The available data is very valuable to those players who do use it, especially at the mid to high stakes levels where the same players ¬¬¬return again and again. It is also useful in poker coaching and staking.
Since little is known about the extent to which Full Tilt Poker and other big online poker sites like PokerStars will go to prevent datminers from collecting information off of their sites, it is hard to say whether or not it may soon be something of the past. While the online poker industry is still young, but continues to grow and advance in light years, it must adapt and amend itself along the way to compensate for fairness and the overall security of its players. This may be a big step for the industry as a whole that site after site will follow, or it may prove to be just a passing issue. However, the latter is unlikely, as once a big force like Full Tilt takes something on, it doesn’t usually get swept under the rug.


Thoughts?

I don't think it's a bad idea and pokerstars are doing the same thing in the near future.

An argument can be made that sites shouldn't allow online players to compile data on opponents that they wouldn't have available to them in a real card house or in-person tournament. (Not saying I necessarily agree with that argument; only that an argument can be made.)

But you can bet there's some hardcore players who make big deposits to these online sites that would take their business elsewhere to somebody who continues to allow the practice.

In my view, those who don't know about it aren't going to be putting big money into the poker sites, they will be casual lower stakes players, not mid to high stakes regs.

I don't use PTR much, I will occasionally look a player up on Sharkscope. My issue would be that if HUDS were outlawed, I would struggle to multi table on cash games like I do, it just wouldn't be possible to do it profitably, IMO.

Its about time.

PTR is the only site they actually name, I'm assuming sites like Sharkscope would be included as well.

I wonder about a reporting site like HighStakesDB though, would they still be allowed to operate? It's not so much a practial resource as it is a billboard reading "Full Tilt = high stakes action" so I'm wondering if they'd let that one slide?

Ninja edit: maybe not, they're reporting problems with their tracking on Full Tilt games as well.

popcorn.gif

+1

I'm not sure how this changes anything. PTR was essentially hacking to get data before right? So won't they just work to carry on doing that?

I think full tilt is trying to stop all sites, including sharkscope. I know topshark is having trouble getting SNG/MTT results onto their site and i emailed them about it and they said Full Tilt has blocked them since they are considered a datamining site. The email also said they don't consider themselves a datamining site, so they are trying to get it cleared up with Full Tilt, so they can still post results.

About damn time, these computer programs and their stats are cheating plain and simple. If these poker rooms plan on expanding they need new entry level players. If they continously are getting cheated out of their money by people with tracking systems they won't reload as ofter, or perhaps ever again. It's amazing how many people are willing to sign off on cheating as ok, because it makes them money.

Well they're trying but FTP has essentially made their efforts useless. PTR tracks maybe 10% of hands at 100nl these days. Oh yeah and +1 for it's about time.

I think it seems like a great time to go post questions in the software forum for our local PTR rep. I'm sure he'll be very forthcoming with details.

Aaah well that's excellent then

I like the fact that they will be banning the data mining. If you collect info on players thru your software i.e. PT3, HEM thats cool by me but purchasing HH on players thru 3rd party poker info just doesnt seem right to me...

I think this is a good idea because it is an unfair advantage to have information like that out in the public that only a few people can use. I've always thought informaiton like that shouldn't be public anyways.

i had no idea about this


i thought my ptr page was just not reloading properly or something


this is pretty awesome

its about time. figured sooner than later they would...sooner

Pokertableratings & Propokerlabs have me underrated & it's pissing me off!

Yep, consider me on the "about time" bandwagon.

RE: SharkScope (not their HUD which does work on datamining, but their SnG/MTT results), OPR, and the like. Those are scraping tournament result lobbies, not HHs, and I'm okay with that. It's the same results any of us could compile by looking up the tourney's ourselves, unlike HHs that you weren't dealt in.

LOL, why??? You should be thanking them.

I follow thier results, and it's always incomplete.

But... you do realize how that benefits you, right?

About time, maybe when the playing field is level, more people will move to cash games.

Incomplete information is as much use as a one legged man in an arse kickin contest. ( apologies to any one legged members).

Sure, but it doesn't satisfy my ego. I'm deep in another tourney, & I need to rally... I'm down 50$ for the day.

I always wonder how much cheating is out there on FT and PS. Ever consider they dont want you to get that information for THEIR protection??

Not sure what you are trying to say - or maybe I am. But, do you mean cheating as far as players go, or superuser cheating?

Cause I dont think any site as big as they are want any kind of superuser scandal, it would crush trust in the site and consequently their player base. And they are very observant of player cheating.

Since this thread was bumped I just thought I'd throw out there that PTR has recorded ZERO hands on me since the last FTP update. Keep up the good work FTP.

Sharkscope not tracking ft either now as far as I can tell

Was a misstake to create all type of helping tools from the start. Its doing more damage then it help us who try make a living on poker. Nowdays u have to use them. They make alot money and we loose alot because everyone learns stats winning play etc. I vote to take away everything that give players information about others. Notes would be only thing allowed

Datamining is bad. I don't mind seeing peoples profits from tournaments as it doesn't give in dept knowledge about how people play certain hands and so on..

Don't get me wrong, I do check peoples stats on PTR purely from a respectful aspect. If there is someone like nanonoko, I like to check his graph and winnings every now and again but I have no interest in wanting to collect hand history or anything like that.

It isn't fair at the end of the day, you don't get to see it live in cash games or tournaments (unless of course it's a big event) and people willily and knowingly accept their hole cards being shown up but even still that's just the odd hand here and there unless it's the Final table and even then, it's acceptable.

Good work FT...I hope all other sites do something like this.

A friend of mine (total fish), cashed out of all poker sites around 6 months ago and swore never to play online again once he discovered datamining sites. He looked himself up and discovered he was down in the region of 5K.

I was telling him this today, looks like he is going to redeposit on FT......

I actually know 2 guys who had their wives look them up on PTR. Apparently we were talking about it one night while playing at one of their houses and his wife over heard from the other room. When she looked him up (I guess she either already knew or later found out his screen name) she saw that he was down a few grand. He was forced to stop playing online (he actually is breakeven to a small winner in our live games so that was allowed to continue). The real tragedy though was that she told on of the other guy's wife about PTR. This guy was a HUGE degen and was down over 10K in cash games alone (likely at least that in SnGs). He doesn't get to play online at all anymore and what's worse he rarely gets to come out and donate to the home games.

The death of PTR will be too late for them, but hopefully it will still die.

I'm surprised it would bother a recreationally player, then again I suppose if I knew of people who played online more than recreationally and someone pointed it out I might well of stopped..

Ouch. How someone can afford to lose 10k and keep playing is beyond me! I'm not surprised his wife stopped him, my wife got sick of me depositing money every weekend playing poker and that wasn't in the region of 10k in losses, then again the few 200's etc added up I guess.

On a side note and total different path all together and it has just crossed my mind billy, your friend who has lost 10k...I guess he was recreational? It was just a thread I started a couple of week about the recreational player and how the USA players had a different front on them..I'm guessing he was more like me except worse in terms of gambling high.

The real degen guy was great for me because I used him as a way to cash out. He'd call me up and want a few hundred at a time transferred and he'd tell me he ship it back the next day if he won (this never happened) or I could go pick up the cash whenever. He'd sit with whatever I transferred to him. He actually stopped playing cash after a while because his $$s didn't last long enough so he'd play HU SnGs as high as he could afford the BI for because they suited his "style" more (playing every hand is a style right?). If he won he'd move up until it was gone.

One night in particular he kept calling me for more $$s, I think it ended up near a grand, because he was playing some "donk" at $300+30 HU SnGs. He'd win a couple and lose it back. He called my cell at like midnight that night and left a message that he was up to ~$2700 and that he would send me my $$s back. Well the next day the money wasn't back so I went out to his business to pick up my money. When I got there he handed me a stack of bills which was $100 more than I had sent him. I said what's the extra $100 for and he goes "Figured I'd go ahead and get another $100 transferred?".

Lol so between midnight the night before and noon the next day he'd dropped $2700 and he wanted more. God I love playing with him. When he comes to the home game he averages losing probably $800 (200nl game).

lmfao!

Quality..

I suppose if he has a business he can afford to play these stakes, I just don't understand how someone obviously who is so bad carries on playing. He must really enjoy the game lol.

Why don't you get online and play him? Surely you would make a killing from him lol.