'deep' tables at Full Tilt? What is that?

#1 9th March 2009, 3:33 PM

I was gonna ask about the 'edu' tables, but I see that's been covered here (so ignore the circle around them). Funny, I couldn't find anything about them on their website. Anyway, was also wondering about these 'deep' tables. I went into a full 9-seat and asked, but no one answered.

#2 9th March 2009, 3:44 PM

at the deep tables you can buy in for 200 BBs instead of the maximum 100 BB buy-in at the regular tables. furthermore, there's a minimum buy-in of 50 BBs unlike the 20 BB min at the regular tables, which means no shortstackers to screw up the games!

#3 9th March 2009, 3:53 PM

Even if you only buy in for 100bbs, deep tables are great because they limit the shortstackers (like Jagsti ).

#4 9th March 2009, 3:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combuboom

at the deep tables you can buy in for 200 BBs instead of the maximum 100 BB buy-in at the regular tables. furthermore, there's a minimum buy-in of 50 BBs unlike the 20 BB min at the regular tables, which means no shortstackers to screw up the games!

Thanks. So here's another question... How do short stacks mess you up? Are they more likely to bluff/go all in (not too worried about you reraising them for huge bucks) or....???

#5 9th March 2009, 4:05 PM

bad shortstackers are fine. at the micro limits that's probably mostly what you'll find, so it's not that big of a problem. at the stakes i play, there are a lot of "good" shortstackers who know how to play the strategy. they are a nuisance because they're able to play in a way that is basically unexploitable. you can't outplay them because a large % of their game is simply shoving all-in over raises. if they're picking the right spots and hands to do this, there's not a lot you can do about it. they tend to grind out small winnings but hurt a good player's profit potential and fill up seats that could be taken by bad players with bigger stacks

#6 9th March 2009, 4:17 PM

What's an edu table? The search function doesn't exercise the term, so I can't find the thread.

#7 9th March 2009, 4:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divebitch

Thanks. So here's another question... How do short stacks mess you up? Are they more likely to bluff/go all in (not too worried about you reraising them for huge bucks) or....???

Shortstackers reduce your implied odds forcing you to dump some hands (SC, small pp) that you'd like to play with deeper stacked opponents. They also turn the game into a 2-street (at most) game because they only have enough chips for a normal bet preflop and an AI on the flop. They also limit your winnings when you do hold a premium hand.

#8 9th March 2009, 4:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glworden

What's an edu table? The search function doesn't exercise the term, so I can't find the thread.

tables where full tilt pros (maybe other affiliates as well?) may be recording instructional videos, sometimes anonymously. by sitting down you agree to consent to your play possibly being recorded and analyzed

#9 9th March 2009, 4:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glworden

What's an edu table? The search function doesn't exercise the term, so I can't find the thread.

It's pretty cool. Just started monkeying around in there this morning.

Full Tilt Poker Academy

EDUCATIONAL TABLES ON FULLTILT

#10 9th March 2009, 4:33 PM

those edu tables look pretty appetizing if that screenie is anything to go by.

#11 9th March 2009, 4:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combuboom

tables where full tilt pros (maybe other affiliates as well?) may be recording instructional videos, sometimes anonymously. by sitting down you agree to consent to your play possibly being recorded and analyzed

If they are playing anonymously you get a 25xbb bonus offer. I have yet to play at one of these tables because they always seem to be full of shortstackers for whatever reason.

#12 9th March 2009, 4:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combuboom

they are a nuisance because they're able to play in a way that is basically unexploitable. you can't outplay them because a large % of their game is simply shoving all-in over raises. if they're picking the right spots and hands to do this, there's not a lot you can do about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

Shortstackers reduce your implied odds forcing you to dump some hands (SC, small pp) that you'd like to play with deeper stacked opponents. They also limit your winnings when you do hold a premium hand.

By that same token, they limit their own winnings when they have a premium hand. And why would you dump a hand that you'd play against a big stack in the first place? (I'm assuming you mean if the whole table is mostly short stackers.) IDK. I'd think quite the opposite, but I really am pretty ignorant about strategy. I'd think it would have more to do with position and your own stack size with those SCs. Like combuboom says, it's obviously a specific strategy. Not sure what those right spots are, but I'll take your word. I don't expect a lesson here. Thanks both for the replies.

#13 9th March 2009, 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divebitch

By that same token, they limit their own winnings when they have a premium hand. And why would you dump a hand that you'd play against a big stack in the first place? I'd think quite the opposite, but I really am pretty ignorant about strategy. I'd think it would have more to do with position and your own stack size with those SCs. Like combuboom says, it's obviously a specific strategy. Not sure what those right spots are, but I'll take your word. I don't expect a lesson here. Thanks both for the replies.

You're right of course, when you run your KK into their AA your losses are limited just as much as your winnings are limited when it's the other way around. As to your other question, if we have a 100bb stack and are on the button with 22 and another 100bb stack opens UTG for 4x we should call simply to set mine. If a 20bb SS opens from UTG for 4x we have to fold those deuces because we're not getting the odds we need to profitably set mine.

#14 9th March 2009, 4:53 PM

what is the best strategy to counter a good shortstacker?

#15 9th March 2009, 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVHillbilly

if we have a 100bb stack and are on the button with 22 and another 100bb stack opens UTG for 4x we should call simply to set mine. If a 20bb SS opens from UTG for 4x we have to fold those deuces because we're not getting the odds we need to profitably set mine.

You probably posted while I was editing to add: (I'm assuming you mean if the whole table is mostly short stackers.) Anyway, above, I take it that you mean if you're in a HU situation, UTG rasies, and folded to you. With 3 callers, it could still be profitable.

#16 9th March 2009, 5:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divebitch

You probably posted while I was editing to add: (I'm assuming you mean if the whole table is mostly short stackers.) Anyway, above, I take it that you mean if you're in a HU situation, UTG rasies, and folded to you. With 3 callers, it could still be profitable.

A good SS player try to find a table with the rest of the players playing with the full buyin. He have a huge advantage in this scenario, because he is playin against only one type of player (100BB) but the rest of the table must adapt your game if the SS is in the hand or not.
As already was said, the SS play only two streets, so if you are playing a hand against a deep stack and against a short stack you cannot play your hand in the right way because you are facing two different scenarios.

#17 9th March 2009, 7:57 PM

Good stuff here on big vs short stack - go to about 8:30 into it...

http://academy.fulltiltpoker.com/en/.../lessons/id/9/

#18 9th March 2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combuboom

tables where full tilt pros (maybe other affiliates as well?) may be recording instructional videos, sometimes anonymously. by sitting down you agree to consent to your play possibly being recorded and analyzed

Wow, that's nice! Gonna try it out.
BTW when Cardschat is going to open their own table?

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