Bodog Poker blocks scraping sites...saving the fish!

Hey guys,

What do you think of this move by Patrik Selin and team?

Bodog Poker will not longer allow poker information portals to scrape listings from its site...most recreational players don't even know about these tracking sites and they simply provide even more advantage to players who will already beat fish because they are, well, pros.

Bodog blocks poker information portals to save recreational players

Very interested in your opinion!!
Becky

whend does this go into effect ?

I can still look myself up on sharkscope right now. Also when will the banning of HUDs go into place? I have been waiting for this since the invention of the HUD

I think this is great.
I think if no one has that information it makes it a more fair playing field, and then ppl will have to read other ppl.

Haven't read the article yet as I'm in a rush, but I'll just say while I'm fine with stopping scraping sites, datamining, etc., I'm not a fan of blocking tracking software and HUDs. Other sites allow it, it's an integral part of the online game, and critical to my self-study and opponent review. To put it plainly, I should be able to import and track the the hands that I'm involved in using industry recognized legitimate software like HEM & PT3. There was a big outcry on the HEM forums when HEM announced they were acquiescing to Bodog's wishes that they stop development of a Bodog hand grabber. HEM is trying to do right by poker sites and respecting their wishes in order to retain a legitimate standing in the industry, but I think it's unfair to Bodog regs.

This is the main reason I've avoided playing much volume on Bodog. You might say you'd rather rake the fish than the regs, but regs generate a ton of rake too. When I'm at Bodog it's always an unbearable wait for SnGs to fill or to find more than a table or two of cash to grind at the stakes I want. I think you're shooting yourself in the foot by discouraging regs from playing volume. It doesn't seem to stop Stars and FT from attracting the recreational players. There will always be recreational players, and I'd argue that 99% of us that might be considered regs today started out as recreational players, and we can generate a ton of rake for your site. I'm not sure why you're wanting to limit yourself and your market like this.

I am not a pro, but not recreational either. That being said I was just getting ready to re-deposit and build BR at Bodog. I can understand blocking data-mining, but not HUD use. Screw it now and I'll stay where I'm at.

This will most likely turn people like me off to the site(mediocre-slightly above average). On top of it the fish won't even know because they had no idea to begin with! Personally I don't like it. Don't matter much to me though. I just won't be putting my money there again.

Imo it is pretty easy to spot the chip spewers and all of the data you collect should be from hands you have played, the site has lower traffic so it is fairly easy to recognize regulars and how they play.
Not really a big deal.

Perhaps I just have issues staying focused, lol, but when I'm playing 6+ tables I can't imagine trying to build reads without a HUD.

That said I admire what Bodog is doing. I'm not sure if it will truly help at all with traffic but I really don't know enough about it so I probably shouldn't say anything at all

If it helps to bring in more recreational players ("if") then I can't see it being a bad thing.

..... Shaun f'n Deeb rarely uses a HUD while playing MTT's

well the problem is that now there is nobody to control poker room and players how you can give proof now for superuser or for some group of players who are playing like team

Perhaps more cash players will play at Bodog now that it's not allowed. After all, I'm sure there's a saying that goes 'if you can't spot the fish, it's you'. I don't play cash games because sites allow huds etc.

You do know HUD's work for SNG's and MTT's too... Right?

If you play a large volume of hands at the site you should be able to spot the fish and the sharks and take notes.

Of course, big difference between playing a cash table with $100 and a tourney with 6000 chips. Tournament play and cash games are two different animals, ask Phill.

Well obviously that's true, but that doesn't make a HUD useless in a tourney game.

I guess I just don't understand your logic - you won't play cash games because of the information available in a HUD (at least that's how I perceive it), but you will play tourneys where there is also information available in a HUD?

I suppose we're derailing - sorry Becky.

Not much to add other than I like it.

Becky are you worried you will lose your high rollers or grinders? I would be!

I feel about the same as dmorris and cjatud. I don't mind that the datamining companies are blocked - though I don't really care one way or the other.

But I multi-table and won't play without a hud.

Becky, do you know when this all goes into effect ?

I don't mind blocking the data miners (as said before) but since I multitable over serveral sites and with the bodog HH still having a lot of room for improvement I can't really play there comfortably.

Ever tried multitabling 6 sngs / MTTs over 4 sites without a HUD and with bodogs HH ?

No ?

Well me neither, lol.

If all sites banned HUD's then I for one would be delighted. However while its still available to use then I'll use it.

TBH I think sites that allow datamining are bad for the game in general. I have at least one friend that no longer plays online after he saw in black and white exactly how much he was losing. He still plays poker, just not online.

I continue to be more and more impressed by the poker community here at CardsChat as each day goes by, thank you all for your thoughtful and interesting opinions! Keep 'em coming!

Re: the question if Bodog Poker is worried about losing high rollers/grinders, I'm going to agree with Patrik Selin's comment that serving the needs of pro players is not only shortsighted but dangerous to continued growth of the poker industry. The CalvinAyre.com article finishes up by stating that "with or without their technological crutches, pro players will still play online poker, and they’ll still win more than they lose"...so as long as Bodog Poker attracts a lot of recreational players, I think the pros should be happy.

Becky

I am not sure of the exact time frame, but at the moment HUD's are being phased out. I will update when I find out more!

Becky

Approve of the stance. Also glad to see HUDs being phased out there. Would be good to see that happen everywhere.

now bring back all of the good guaranteed tournaments with overlays, give sportsbook/casino players some kind of poker tournament $ bonus just to get them in the pokkerroom, ban HUDs, keep table max at 4 , get rid of rakeback, and we may have something resembling the glory days of the bodog pokerroom circa 2004-2005

It'll never happen everywhere. A few superstar multi-table grinders aside, the vast majority of multi-tablers won't play without a HUD. MMTers generate a ton of rake. Stars and Tilt fully realize this and have absolutely zero problem with trackers and HUDs. The core problem isn't trackers and HUDs, as they aren't anywhere near cheating. The problem is with datamining and being able to drill into a wealth of players' stats that you've never played a hand against before.

I fully support shutting out the PTRs and SharkScope HUDs (although I think sites that collect results and not HHs are fine) that use datamined hands. But don't stop me from collecting my own HHs.

Even if I weren't using tracking software or a HUD, Bodog's HH review is abysmal. It seriously tilts me that I can't easily review my own sessions and hands. Without a tracker, at least with Stars and Tilts I can very easily review and replay hands. Not so with Bodog, I suppose due to their misguided attempt to stop something that actually isn't a problem.

The only people I ever hear wailing about trackers and HUDs are people who (a) don't know how they're used and what they really do, and (b) *usually* are losing players themselves who like to blame other people, the sites, and/or technology for their losses.

Trackers and HUDs, when fed with legitimately acquired HHs rather than datamined hands, are widely supported in the industry as legitimate software, which I personally believe any serious student of the game realizes.

I would be very interested to hear if and how they intend to market this. Will it have some effect (though small) on PS and FTP? A friend of mine who used to play quite a bit online was mortified to find out all of his playing was a matter of public record. When I asked him what name he played under and within 5 minutes I emailed his graph for the past 6 months - I think his brain shut down. He was not happy. I'll tell him about this and he'll definitely get on board.

HUDs should be allowed data mining sites should not. If you weren't at the table you should not have access to the HH.

^^^^^^^this

Can't recall the details... but wasn't one of the cash game tracking sites directly responsible for finding a security flaw in one of the major sites recently (last few months)? I'll eventually look it up...

When anyone starts hiding information, I get nervous...

I guess that's sort of the point of this move though... A losing player is going to be more likely to remain at the site if there if tracking software isn't available, since they can blame that for their losses. Then they'll redeposit, thinking the playing field is even now, donating to the cause

I still like my HUD though!

It's a tough call. Ha, the pros should buy a yellow pad and make notes the old fashioned way. Or maybe Bodog should go in the complete opposite direction and incorporate HUD's and tracking programs on their interface and give recreational players the tools to play like the pros. That way, there is an even playing field. Although I'm not experienced in using HUD's or tracking programs.

Well right now on Bodog it's exactly the opposite of what it should be. HUDs don't work and PTR is tracking every hand. Try harder.

I guess you have never multi-tabled or you would know that is absolutely not possible to do for 99% of people. (I am thinking there might be a few geniuses here and there who could half-ass pull this off so didn't say 100% lol)

And I guess you've never played Bodog because they limit you to 4 tables anyway.

But trackers are available to everyone. Not just pros. If players have the sense to use something like this built-in to the poker site software (and unique to each one), then why the problem with paying only $55-$90, or even free through an affiliate signup, to get a single software tool that would work the same across all the sites?

I think one of the biggest misconceptions here is that players using tracking software are automatically winning players. Tracking software only helps you get better if you use it properly. It's a tool to improve your game, but it doesn't make you play better by just installing and running it.

Lol - no I don't play there cause they don't allow huds. But - I couldn't even do notes like that on 4 tables - I think I would have to be on 2 at the most.