BEWARE OF NEW SITES OFFERING BIG FREEROLLS PART2 - ROSSO POKER IS A FRAUD

Those of you who read my first post on the new site RossoPoker read how their own rules had no method for paying American players (If you are a player who has been paid by them please post to this thread). I sent emails to companies they purport to be associated with them.

On RossoPoker's Website, they claim that one of the most respected international accounting firms is associated with their organization Price Waterhouse Coopers. I received this letter (unedited) from that organization. TELL EVERY PLAYER YOU KNOW DON'T PLAY THERE - THEY ARE A FRAUD!!!
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Rosso Poker‏
From: steve.r.vanenburg@an.pwc.com
Sent: Wed 7/23/08 5:29 PM
To: jonh333@
Cc: cees.f.rokx@an.pwc.com; ralf.h.wieriks@an.pwc.com

Dear Mr. Holt,

Referring to your enquiry regarding the statement on the website of Rosso Poker that PricewaterhouseCoopers is the auditor of the company named RTB Enterprises N.V. , I inform you that this statement is false and without any basis. We have contacted the director of the company and have demanded that our name and logo will be removed from their website within 24 hours.
Thank you for making us aware of this fact.

Kind regards
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________
Steve R. Vanenburg | Partner (TAX) | PricewaterhouseCoopers Netherlands Antilles | Telephone: +599 9 430 0000 | Facsimile: +599 9 461 1119 | steve.r.vanenburg@an.pwc.com

P Help reduce waste. Consider the environment before printing this email.
__________________________________________________ _______________
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.
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Thanks for the feedback. I'm uninstalling their software as we speek! Glad they didn't get none of my money!

Thanks for the info Merlin. I did win $100 from a freeroll and was considering depositing to try to cash out.

I would imagine that a lot of people are "winning" freerolls at the moment. Looks like this is a scam site, set up to get peoples bank account details.

Nice work Merlin, have you considered posting this over at 2+2, might make a bit more of a stir in the online poker community.

Keep posting reviews of these new sites and thanks for the update.

Nice detective work Jon, and thanks for sharing your info.

Yep I posted it on 2+2, Pocket Fives, Adinfinitum,,RailBirds, sent it to Rounders, Merlin333 and here on CardsChat - I invite anyone to verify, if you like, the authenticity of the info and post it EVERYWHERE YOU CAN AND TELL ANY PLAYERS YOU KNOW. Players who find this info out must share and post it to prevent these lowlife thieves from having the nerve to think they can get away with it.

You'd think after the recent, similar episodes with Wingows, BigJuicy Odds, JunGlePoker, WMFE and others they'd at least be a little more sophisticated and at least try to hide it - what a bunch of lowlife thieves.

Merlin333

p.s. PooffyFooffy vbmenu_register("postmenu_852095", true) let us know if ou were let us know let us know if you were able to cash-out / what happened?

Well, I live in U.S. so I am assuming I cannot, It says I need to deposit first and I am kinda not wanting to go get a prepaid card to deposit real money for them to tell me I cannot because I live here.
I will check the amount I need to deposit and decide if it's worth the loss. I will let you guys know.

Thanks for the great information these kind of people should be stopped. Great work!!

Truly a nice job Merlin.

I don't know Poofy, I think I would just cut my losses and forget it. I wouldn't want to give them anymore of my information in light of this information.

Ohhhh very good point, I didn't even think of that. It's that damned blonde thing.

thank you very much for this info merlin much appreciated

until your post i have heard nothing but good things about

rossopoker i was almost tempted to dwnld it and depo

now i certainly will not .......

Txs for the timely info. It confirms my statements in the Stand Up ULTIMATE thread, where I point out that scams are not limited to the two most infamous cases today, AP and UB, but are likely occurring all over the place. And that it is incumbent upon the poker community to 'police' our own, in the absence of any independent authority on international online gaming. Even if such an authority evolves some day, I still think 'caveat emptor' will be necessary. In the gaming world, online or bricks and mortar, scams and scammers will always be with us.

Now that I think of it I think I will take the money and goto a high stakes table. I have always wanted to try higher stakes but didn't want to risk "real money"

I HAVE POSTED THIS ON EVERY SITE I AM A MEMBER OF, FEEL FREE TO POST THIS ON ANY OTHER SITES!!!!!
UPDATE
FYI - they claim to be in the Dutch Antilles

1. They claim to be in the Curacao Internet Gaming Association (CIGA) (http://www.ciga.an/) that companies
2. CIGA's sites members area is "coming soon"
3. CIGA's "members list" and does not list RossoPoker as a member
4. CIGA as an internet company they do not have a visible email for contact!!!
5. If they are in fact a member, RossoPoker is afoul of many of the guidelines GIGA's "charter" lists
6. Their bank of record the Bank of Valetta (BOV) says the are "investigating" but will not confirm or deny Rossopoker as a client due to "security concerns"
7. Apparently at the request of Price Waterhouse Coopers to remove their logo from the RossoPoker website within 24 hours - they have complied (something they would not do if they were in fact a client of that prestigious company. They have removed all external company "associates" logos from their website as of my last check which was at 12:36PM EST - 7/25/08

Thanks simpleman, I am just gonna try and donk it off nothing to lose. In the meantime if anyone is seriously still playing there and lives outside the U.S. pm me I am thinking of donating.

Good to know. I am always alittle afraid of giving out any of my personal info online. Thx

Thanks for the info. It would be helpful to have a list of all sites that are acting fraduantely. Possibly it could be placed near the poker site reviews so it could be easily accessed and seen.

Hopefully this can help people from depositing money with these sites.

Good post, I never even mess with any little B.S. sites anymore when I first started playing online I tried to play freerolls everywhere, now I stick to the big ones Pokerstars, Ftilt and Bodog, because I trust them, I might not trust all the draws but I know I will be getting paid.

Hmmm for some reason their letter didn't copy - it is below......
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UPDATE 7/28/2008
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Merlin333.
Thank you for your explanation.

I understand "youthful enthusiasm" I find it difficult to attribute my findings to that. You must understand that the online poker community in general and the US online poker community specifically has, in recent times, been literally flooded with "new" poker sites and resurrected failed ones appearing, making "too good to be true" offers, making fictitious and/or ambiguous claims, overt and invisible impediments to claiming fairly won money, making all manner of delays and excuses - then vanishing with everyone's money.

I am making a statement with my small, new forum, and be sure there are many more larger, more established forums and poker players in general, especially Americans (where the current political climate puts us at a disadvantage) that will place the spotlight of scrutiny on each and every new forum. Be sure that we will check out and spread the information everywhere so as to reduce the likelihood of being cheated.... again. If the forum is legitimate this will be distributed with equal fervor.

Be advised that I have received communication from Price Waterhouse Coopers, I have not yet received all the answers to my queries and I will post and disseminate them whether they mitigate for or militate against your statement of harmless omission or innocent error. If what I've found so far can be contributed only to "youthful enthusiasm" or something else, vigilance never harms an honest enterprise with honest intentions.

Has your site yet set up a method for deposits and payments to US players? I humbly suggest that if you have not, in a show of honesty and good faith indicate in your marketing materials that you have no way to pay US players. To date I have been contacted by several players who have voiced the concern of not being able to be paid for games fairly won on RossoPoker. What are your intentions in this area?

Sincerely,
Jon
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Re: FW: PWC‏ From: Cashier RossoPoker (cashier@rossopoker.com) Sent: Mon 7/28/08 3:19 PM To: Jon(jonh333@ ) Hi Jon,

When creating and starting our Rossopoker website last year, we intended to work together with Neteller, Moneybookers, Click2pay, Ideal etc. And also with PWC.
As you can see, all our suppliers/partners and other business relations are mentioned with their name and logo on the website and we added the PWC name and logo too as (again) we intended to work with them the same as with the other mentioned companies. And indeed, without asking PWC for approval.

We are very sorry this has happened. This was certainly not our intention. We are a young pokersite, an enthousiastic group of people who enjoy working together and we work very hard to implement new features, tournements etc on our Rossopoker site. We just never thought of removing the logo after launching our site........

I trust this information answers your question.


Best regards,

Monique
cashier@rossopoker.com

Wow...I have friends that just set up account there. I am going to repost this on their site. Thanks for the heads up.

What about swankpoker akak HilarySwank poker??? I've seen it advertised in the poker mags and subscribed to it in hopes of them launching who knows when. Its ridiculous. Now swankpoker.com site doesn't even come up.

Missed your calling Merlin. You need to be working security at a finance institution..Great detective work bud.

Thanks bud.

I was lucky enough to withdraw my money just before BigJuicyOdds closed up and vanished with everyone's funds. Recently Wingows (who is trying to resurface), WMFE and JunglePoker all did the same thing. We can best guard against these lowlife Son ## a ^#&@^@s by sharing what we know and posting it far and wide to alert others. They cannot survive if no one plays.

The only reason they even try this in such an "open communication, hey didn't this just happen" environment is that they think we're stupid and don't talk.

There is another site, I won't mention the name because I don't have proof, that is said to play bots on their site in their good maney games. Here is a clue on how to ID them - look at their tournament leaderboards then look the OPR (Official Player Ranking database [Official Poker Rankings - Poker Ratings, Poker Results and Statistics] to see the "winners" past playing record). When I was told about it and looked, I could not find a single, solitary one of these players history there or in any of usual places - zip. It seems they just appeared out of the ether won their tournaments and vanished. As a rule of thumb I check that on all "virtual Stu Ungar's" and these new sites. This too is not scientific, but these bad/new sites also seem to sometimes have "joke names" - lol.

Merlin333

I posted the info you provided on another forum and my freinds are unconcerned. They all opened accounts there and another member is supposed to get a percentage of their winnings for first month. They are going freeroll crazy and then cash games with winnings.

They responded to my post that they would keep playing and hope the site improves its standing. I pointed out that they need to deposit before they can withdraw but still no concern.

I guess all I can do is warn them.

That is pretty scary! I guess that is why I am so hesitant to try another poker site. Stars and FTP are so notable that you feel somewhat safe with your information. There have been lots of others to pop up in the last few years, but I don't trust them very much.

I've thanked you before and I'll do so again.

This is precisely the sort of disemination of information a forum like this is for.

Thumbs up, Bro!

Wow thanks for the info! No wonder I am doing so well there..looks like everyone is. Freerolls just seem way to easy to cash in. Well guess my account wil just stay as is because I will never deposit any real money .
THANKS AGAIN! yankeenut23

To be honest, i'm not surprised at all. Just look at the reaction of players to the Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet scandals - indifference basically.

I have play there some won about 25.00 but Iwill not deposit there.

We were as hypnotized by the enemy's propaganda as a rabbit is by a snake.
General Eric Von Ludendorf, German General Staff, 1918

"The more we do to them, the less they believe we are doing it"
-J.Mengele.

your right on the money (or lack of it merlin) I had accumulated A 150.00 through their freerolls Then was informed that I needed A
"deposit history to cash out" checked into it and found out that they are truly A fraud, thx for the heads up

Tell EVERYBODY YOU KNOW!!!!!

Let me play Devil's Advocate here for a moment. This is not an endorsement at all. Perhaps it is another way to view things.

A new site arrives, knowing it will take a good long while to establish a history, and a following. They see the US market as ripe, and believe they have things set up correctly. Never mind at this point that they don't/

They have some deep pocket backers to fund the promotional freerolls, and hope to get depositors after a short while.

Any site will want to establish a personal relationship with its players. It will be necessary to verify who they are and where they are, and the easiest one-time shot at doing this is to provide it all when depositing. So the deposit requirement to me is a no brainer.

Any new site should have all the ducks lined up before launch. Deposit/ID methods, payout methods, games tested and stats available, along with who the hell they are and where they are located. They need to show they have a support staff, and if it is a small staff, give a better than good faith estimate on reply times.

They will get no new members/players unless they are looking for fools (wait, almost all sites are looking for fools, but then aren't we as players also looking for them?). So any/all players should investigate who it is they are giving their money to.

The more open a site is, the better. Any company clouded in shell corps or other fogs will never grow much. A verifiable, named CEO, or COO should be easily accessible via a posted email address via all sites. A physical address somewhere in the world, verifiable thru google maps or some such, would be comforting.

Keep in mind that like most of you, many, if not most players, don't seek a poker forum out first. They seek out a poker game first, and after a while they run across a forum reference and decide to improve their game. In that process they might run across a thread like this.

If they are not cheap, and enjoy poker for the entertainment value, they will deposit without checking anything. The only way to get info to those folks would be via the chat in the games at the sites you question. Meaning there isn't a whole lot that can happen.

I don't mind new sites, or smaller sites. They were all small once, and new too. I'd guess that the very earliest days at Stars were pretty damn chaotic.


Again, this is NOT AN ENDORSEMENT! And may not be very coherrent either........