any effect of black friday on B&M/casino business yet?

So now that it's been over a week w/ a fraction of the US playing online poker, does anyone know if casinos have had a surges in attendance since black Friday? The effect on the B&M industry has been an issue debate over legalizing online poker, and casinos have generally maintained that it hurts their business. Does anyone know if there are any stats about this yet to support/hurt their argument?

Guess I'm answering my own question here. Well, thought you seasoned B&R folks might find this silly article interesting -- Online poker players move to the cardrooms. Excerpt:

LOL, these guys act like most of us have never played a live game, or are to stupid to make the transition. Ignorance IMO.

If someone don't toke the dealer it doesn't mean they are an online player, it means they are a cheap ass! Same types of people who don't tip their pizza delivery guy or waitress.

If they honestly want to tell an online player, look for the guy with the gatorade bottle under the table. See, online players don't get up to pee. Wonder why they didn't list this one. Give us some credit. If we can adapt to the constantly changing online game, most of us can adapt to a live game.

Here is more of a truth than the article: If you want to pick out the online player, look for the deepest chipstack and AVOID THEM AT ALL COST! Only reason I don't play live all the time is I can't clone myself to multi-table, and my phone doesn't have a HUD app yet.

Edit: This from same article cracked me up:

The bottom line: Get ready for some crazy pots. Online players aren't afraid to pump the pot before the flop and bully others. If you're accustomed to quiet and friendly games, the high-powered style may alarm you. But remember, the more these newcomers build pots, the bigger those pots will be for you to win.

Maybe they're British. We're not allowed to tip dealers here. Seems like an invitation for corruption to me.

Well if it's standard not to tip in England, then so be it. Dealers probably make decent money in the first place. Here in America, there are several fields of work were workers make minimum wage or less and depend on their tips to make a living. It sickens me to see people not leave tips at a restaurant or to the pizza guy. I don't know what dealers make in the casino, but sure it can't be much. I know at the local "charity poker room" they make squat.

Don't get me wrong, if it wasn't allowed or not appropriate then I wouldn't. Not calling British people cheap for not toking. Also would like very much for a non-tipping casino. Might be able to actually make money live this way. Unless they just charge more rake, of course.

At the charity room there are tourneys. We don't use separate chips for toking. All those who cash usually toke a couple percent of their winnings. This is all put in a pot that the dealers split. Kinda sucks cause some dealers are contently making mistakes in which people at the table have to catch. I think if we toke out of pocket, many of them would try harder.

As for corruption, casinos watch their employees just as much, if not more than the players. Don't think they would keep shady people working for them as this could tarnish their reputation. Just my thought on the situation is all.

I don't mind tipping for people for people who deserve tipping. Not purely based on them being on minimum wage, if they really needed money, then most of these jobs which you are referring too (waitresses, dealers?,bar tenders) the majority look miserably as sin and don't even give a smile. Pizza delivery people, again you can't really tip as the food might be really bad and you tipped before you even opened it. I'm not tight fisted and if someone in a restaurant or in a pub is polite, smiles and in general look like they at least enjoy what they are doing then I will tip them. Otherwise, not - why should you? Even if they did need the money, they would put on a front to at least make you think they enjoyed doing what they did.

A lot of jobs are minimum wage which are the sort of jobs where you wont get tipped but people can live of it, be it not a very good lifestyle if they are on their own and foot the bills for everything but in general they aren't living in poverty.

FWIW we're not allowed to tip casino dealers in Australia either, I'm pretty sure you can't in New Zealand and I have a feeling the same is true most European countries as well? Here at least it's for exactly the reason that NoWucking mentions above: it's a huge game security issue, particularly at table games where there's huge potential for dealers to favour players who tip them well.

The article quoted above is laughable - when I think insane preflop action I think of live games, not vice versa. The only games I know where the standard opening raise preflop is 5BB or higher are live games, not online ones.

As for the original question I doubt there's been a huge surge. Most of the higher stakes and more successful online players already play live so there's not likely to be much change there. Many of the lower stakes online grinders will have big chunks of their bankrolls tied up online at the moment so they probably won't have the funds available to skip straight to their local card room (if they even have one) and even those who do have access to their money may run into bankroll issues. Someone rolled for $50NL or $100NL online will have a hard time adapting to the swings of live games where $200NL is usually as low as stakes go.

I'm sure some of them will migrate to live poker in time but I don't really think there's going to be any kind of surge or mass influx.

I don't just tip willy nilly. I just make a tip based on service provided. If my pizza is an hour late, the guy still gets at least a buck. Could have been co-workers fault for all I know. If my waitress is a bitch, she might get a buck, if she's lucky. If I get excellent service then I tip well. If my dealer is a douche, I leave the table.

Just saying, I used to deliver pizzas and was good at it. There were certain people whose houses I hated to go because they did not tip, ever. That is just an ignorant or scummy person IMO. LOL, go pick up your own damn pizza if you ain't tipping.

As for not living in poverty, many do. In case you haven't heard jobs are kinda hard to find in America. At least where I live.

It's all just social convention IMO - while I know pizza delivery guys here appreciate tips I don't think any of them actually expect them from their customers.

Anywho, I think we might be getting sidetracked here...

You're right Oz(as usual). I have been one sidetracking many threads. For that I'm sorry and don't even realize I am doing it sometimes.

As for the OP obviously I think the article is funny to say the least. As for many Americans going back to B&M, temporarily is my guess. As long as there are companies willing to risk prosecution, many will return to online poker. It's just SOOO much easier all around.

I play live mainly for fun. Most of the time it's a home game or at private club. It would be very hard for us making money(also those who think they do) online to switch to casinos for the simple reason of variance. Of course there are many fish who will go to B&M, but as soon as this "big three indictment" news dies down they will return.

Until then lets just all keep learning and staying ahead of the curve. Also very sorry for derailing threads lately. Honestly don't try to, but catch myself doing it more often lately. I'll try to think before I type from now on guys.

Was listening to the podcast from another forum. They spoke with a professional poker player living in Vegas. He said that many online players were playing in the Brick and motar casino. He said the Aria where he was playing was full and business was so good they were increasing staff to handle influx. You would have to figure that before players can go to brick and motar they would have to first get their money from the online sites. Depending on how much they have invested online, they would now need another BR to play real. You would expect the American pros to at play more offline if they have the skills necessary. Online and B$M require different skills.

I got my pokerstars money in my bank account last night.

I can see that in Vegas, or if you live right near casinos, but for most of us casinos aren't an option except for the occasional trip. The micro-stakes multi-tablers aren't going to be moving enmasse to casinos either. Even for bigger cash game players, losing the ability to multi-table is going to put a big crip in their income.

Casinos can't fill the void of being able to play everyday in the comfort of your own home. I can see my hubby's face if every night I said "See you tomorrow, I'm going to drive 3 hours to the casino to play some poker." Not to mention the dam price of gas!!!

OP chiming in here again....

So I went to a Harrah's near Philadelphia tonight. It was the first time this mirco multi-tabler has played in anything live other then a home game. And wow, different indeed! I didn't really mind the obvious & huge difference in the # of hands played. I expected to feel a little antsy/bored. I think the two forms of poker (live vs online) feel like entirely different endeavors -- it's almost like it's not the same game, or at least not the same kind of experience.

I went w/ two friends and to my disappointment we all got split up on different $1/2 NL cash tables in a very packed card room of about maybe ~20 tables. They have played tons in casinos before so it was definitely less of a big deal for them, but I was pretty nervous in the begining. I can't exactly explain why but it felt so, I dunno, official. And it wasn't that the table was actually unfriendly, but let's just say it didn't feel like the fun home game I had kind of hoped it would, even if only to some small degree. If I was gonna sit there and fold 80% of my hands (strategically wise, I believe), I just would rather it had been w/ some buds.

That being said -- it was also kind of thrilling.

I bought in fully stacked w/ $200 which I told myself that was the absolute max I was going to spend tonight. In comparison to the $10 of virtual of money I'm used to at a table, $200 real chips felt like a million. The plan was if I fell below 50bb's, I'd just get up & leave so I didn't have to play short, shove the last $100 bucks, only to get sucked out on the river.

... And that's exactly what would have happened every time because basically nobody folded at this table. And I mean nobody. It was insane. I played for 3 hrs (so ~80-90 hands) and I swear I can't remember more than one or two times we didn't see a flop. And 2/3rds of the time it was multiway action on the flop. And half those times people were showing down, usually w/ junk. It was like the .01-.02 cent tables at Full Tilt. Maybe looser even. Wow.

Sadly, I left down a total of $50 at the end of the night. My pockets kings lost to a station who made flush w/ K4s; he called my preflop 3bet plus 3 big barrels all the way showdown. None of my Ax hands connected w/ any flops. My A9s missed when 6 (yes six) people saw the flop. Another pocket pair was up against a dripping wet board and several other players. I was the nit, and everyone at the table knew it, but I don't think there would have been a better way to play tonight. It's too bad though. Outside of acting out of turn once, I think I played ok enough after I settled down, but I only played about 10 hands in total -- and that was over 3 hours.

It was fun, educational, boring ... and also exciting, all at once. I don't really know what to think about the casino experience overall, but I'm glad I went and I'm sure I'll be back at some point.

Yes, that was my experience too. Our casino runs tournaments though, and I usually play in them.

Yes we are? Fairly sure they changed the regs a while back, I've tipped at cash since I started playing like a year ago

Typically you have to win a pot.... perhaps foil hat guy hasn't been? (just sayin')

Sounds like the rooms in Vegas have been pretty full this past week with the Aria looking at expanding it's poker room

No effect here... The main casino(Hollywood) has been booming, so I woud say if anything, it has helped business at least around here.

I haven't played any poker for about 8 months, but that was the rule at the Gala casino that I used to play in, anyway.http://www.thegoodgamblingguide.co.u...asinofacts.htm

Thought something had changed, remembered seeing signs around Gala re: tipping being OK now