Another week of playing with no guts

Dude.....You are a piece of work, you are still twisting what I said around every way possible to prove some point. You don't think luck is involved at all...cool, poker is not gambling??..Ok then. As far as who Bill is, I am sure he is a very good player and probably way better than me. But, to say he has never seen luck at a poker table, or poker is not gambling is just wrong. I give a valid point that luck plays a big part in some form in poker, and you guys go off on some tangent about how I don't think pot odds, good starting hands, etc...are important. Preflop all ins are blind ass luck..PERIOD!!! You don't know whats coming on that flop. In the commentary of the recent world series of poker, the word luck, or lucky was used no less than 15 times. Guess they have a total misunderstanding of the real concept of poker. Not here to insult anyone, and sure as hell not gonna be threatened by you. Why Bill??...How bout me and you?? You are the expert shooting everyone down. I am on Pokerstars and Party about 9 hrs a day, and have accounts on most of the major sites. So anytime you want to teach me a lesson, I am ready to learn.

There has to be a high skill component or else you could never account for consistency. Players who build a consistent bankroll or place well in tourneys most of the time have skill. I think in the short term it seems more like luck or more random, but playing edges over time will produce profits and this can only be done with genuine skill.

That said I do think more luck is required in tournaments because that is a fixed event that culminates in a single winner, whereas if you are a cash player you can simply play each session as an extension of your lifelong career session. This smooths out the effects of luck.

Bad beats are part of the game and complaining about them is just the ego's way of rationalising the event and making it seem unfair. It's just the odds playing out.

Ah, but what if you tried to bluff but got 'unlucky' and the guy you tried to bluff caught a straight flush on the flop?

If your bluff worked, you can make the argument that you were lucky that your opponent didnt catch something great

First of all...tournaments, in the new way they have evolved, are a crap shoot at best. Donkeys for days. Cash games are a differnet story alltogether. If you go back and analyze what I said previously, you would find that I stated that luck was a factor in the short term success of a player. However, over time, that factor is diminished greatly when looking at ones game as a whole. If A-A does not hold up against a card-chasers rags, you were on the shitty end of the probablilities stick. However, you must consider how often A-A is going to hold up under the same conditions. A large majority of the time the Aces are going to hold up, and you will win the pot.

Two completely different ways of viewing the game have emerged here. The believers that luck is a big part of the game, and those that believe it is very small. Phil Hellmuth is a tournament player and doesn't play high-stakes poker like most pros. Of course he was bitching after the 2004 WSOP, look at the size of the field and the sheer number of donkeys that were playing and you'll have an idea as to why. Double that field and more than double the amount of donkeys there in 2004, and you'll get a decent idea about how it was this year. Look at the final table for christ's sake. If you base your view of luck on tournament poker it will be most assuredly skewed. Cash games are where all the lucky players (better known as card-chasers or donkeys or fish) are shown to be exactly what they are. Cash games seperate the wheat from the chaff. When considering that you also must exclude freerolls, and very low limit games. You will only be sucked out on by a really bad beat if you are playing with someone that has made a decision to stay in a pot that they shouldn't be in. It doesn't make you unlucky, it makes them a fish, and if you stay with them, the amount of money you win when your hand holds up (which it usually will) will far outwiegh the amount you lose on a suckout. Therein lies the time factor and how it decreases exponentially, the luck factor.

Ok...my bad , I was referring to mostly tournament play, there is no luck involved in poker, its not a gamble at all. With your superior skills, you will win every hand, come in first in every tourney, never get your AA broken. In fact, hell ..why you haven't won the WSOP has boggled my mind! Maybe you haven't entered?? But with all the money you make off the animal kingdom, as you refer to all the fish, donkeys etc...you could raise the entry in a night of skill at the table?? I am beating a dead horse here, and its pretty comical really. If you are dealt AA and I have 77 and the flop is 79K, I didn;t catch a lucky flop?? Or did my superior skills will that 7 out of the deck?? Now before you act with either hand, does that make me a superior player because I caught a set?? Or was there luck involved?? Never mind, already know the answer...No..see I knew that seven would come out because of the odds, and my skillfullness against donkeys....etc..etc You bet money that your hand will be better than mine, I don't care if your Doyle Brunson, its gambling.

LMAO...wait need to edit this...just reread your post. Phil Helmuth doesn't play the big cash games like the pros??? Have you read any of his books? If you did , you would find out he was a cash game player long before a tourney player. And before poker was cool, and still in the back rooms....LOL...Phil Helmuth is a donkey...LOL..LOL

Can you read? I never called Hellmuth anything. As a matter of fact I am one of the people on this forum that defends Hellmuth. You have no clue what you're talking about on this one. Hellmuth played in the big game after selling a house in his home state and lost almost his entire bankroll. Since then he hasn't played ultra-high stakes poker like many professionals. Do the research on it if you would like. And before you say anything, yes, I have read his books. I will repeat, I did not call Phil Hellmuth a donkey, he is without a doubt one of the best tournament NLHE players ever. Seriously, left to right, grouping letters together into words which form sentences. Its reading, try it.

Folks it's OK to disagree but we sure don't need personal attacks on anybody. I think you went over the line on this post RK92559 and we don't need this on this forum. I'm sure one of the moderators will be contacting you...

Thats fine, have no beef with you or anyone else on here, nor intend to offend anyone. But not gonna take that BS from some geek hiding behind a computer. Moderator delete the post if you like, not worth posting on here and getting overrun by someone telling me I can't read etc....nice site, but someone should respect everyones opinion to a degree, intead of just hammering them and insulting everyones intelligence. Maybe they should change the name to ASK DIAB, because if he doesn't aggree with what you might say, then your a donkey. I am not always right, in fact, wrong alot!! But don't need the BS inuendos about how little I know, and how much he knows. Won't be posting on here again, whats the point?? GL all

ARGH! I do wish we could have civil disagreements around here. Locking the thread.